Roller Cam and Lifters

[John]

Cast ductile iron, CWC casts most of them for the United States.

[Flash]

Cast ductile iron, CWC casts most of them for the United States.

Are you saying that the factory "roller cams" are still cast.............or just that most cast cams are made in the United
States?

Flash

[John]

Most of the OEM cams are still cast, from a different alloy, and this company produces most of them. http://www.muskegonareafirst.org/Articl ... CPlant.htm
John

[Flash]

Most of the OEM cams are still cast, from a different alloy, and this company produces most of them. http://www.muskegonareafirst.org/Articl ... CPlant.htm
John

John Were do you come up with this stuff!!!!!!!!!!! o and Thanks for the Link!

Alloyed Gray iron and Ductile iron.............so what does that mean? Are theses a forged or cast cam? So are these both better quality then our cams or is one of then ours and or which on is the roller cam material

Flash

[John]

Most of the OEM cams are still cast, from a different alloy, and this company produces most of them. http://www.muskegonareafirst.org/Articl ... CPlant.htm
John

John Were do you come up with this stuff!!!!!!!!!!! o and Thanks for the Link!

Alloyed Gray iron and Ductile iron.............so what does that mean? Are theses a forged or cast cam? So are these both better quality then our cams or is one of then ours and or which on is the roller cam material

Flash

Where do I come up with this stuff. Started in my family machine shop at 14, too much formal education that taught less than a year in the field, stock car racing in family since late 40's, 30+ years in metals manufacturing, life long friendship with Dick Yates of Mouldagraph Corp. who was a good teacher, like me a hands on person. In the casting foundy business all his life.
I furnish links often to provide a established reference. And with that http://books.google.com/books?id=m6keIk ... #PPA532,M1

John

[Flash]

Yet another link, i will have to give a 2nt look at when i get some time to try and ingest

Flash

[John]

Start at the bottom of page 531. And remember you asked the question. The answers aren't easy. But I do hope this helps. This link and the CNC link provide more insight into camshaft manufacturing requirements than most. It really is a small community. that gets to look this deep into it.
John

[Flash]

Start at the bottom of page 531. And remember you asked the question. The answers aren't easy. But I do hope this helps. This link and the CNC link provide more insight into camshaft manufacturing requirements than most. It really is a small community. that gets to look this deep into it.
John

Some of it is interesting,.............but its just way over my head.......from the best that i could wrap my head around it. Sound like Ductile or "Nodular iron"(heard of that word before ) might be a possibility for our roller cam, as it said that it was a good alternative to steel cams, which is stated as the best and safest cam shaft material.......(steel)

Beyond that...........it was just over my head trying to swim thru it.

But in the end, were still going to have to ask, get, and us, the cam manifacure/grinder, what there best recamendations are.
I sertanly don't want to call up a shop and tell then how to make my cam............theres a word for it........it called a edgucated idea(know just enough to get him self in to trouble )

Flash

[Flash]

It would be way coool if we could have a cam made by a CNC machine. and I'm sure that it can and has been done, many time before now........................But, what material, what kind of treatment, before and after, making of the cam............What kind of material will be compatible with the roller wheel of the lifter

I'm all for doing a less expanse cam, if it can be done, and still be durable.

When i had talked to "Chase Night" at "Crane cam's", over a year a go. there was a grate proses that had to be done that required straighting of the cam several time in the process........The cutting of the lobes was the simple part of the proses............Was he just blowing smoke up my butt! Probably not.......

and i bet there cam grinder is a CNC machine!!!!


Flash

[John]

"It would be way coool if we could have a cam made by a CNC machine. and I'm sure that it can and has been done, many time before now........................But, what material, what kind of treatment, before and after, making of the cam............What kind of material will be compatible with the roller wheel of the lifter "

Ok, we are even now for the piston slap. LOL.
I got coffee on the keyboard and you have visions of steel vampires.


"I'm all for doing a less expanse cam, if it can be done, and still be durable."

Oh it can be done, but custom small quantity projects raise the bar on manufactures recoverable costs. Small amounts of unobtanium are expensive compared to store bought white bread

"When i had talked to "Chase Night" at "Crane cam's", over a year a go. there was a grate proses that had to be done that required straighting of the cam several time in the process........The cutting of the lobes was the simple part of the proses............Was he just blowing smoke up my butt! Probably not.......and i bet there cam grinder is a CNC machine!!!!

Flash"

He wasn't blowing smoke, but that process is expected by a cam manufacturer, and they have it down pretty well. Don't know about Crane Cams grinding machine, but when I spoke with a contact at Comp Cams, he stated they were still hand grinding.
John

[Flash]

You know, it has just been the two of us going back and forth for the last page and i keep tell my self(SELF, SHUT UP AND LET IT BE!) but every time you post up...............You get my curiosity going and i have to comment........This post is not any different.

And for the "piston slap comment",,,,,,Na, that would be 2-0 my favor ....................Hey bat-a bat-a SWING! Dam steel vamps any ways.


So will store bought white bread be filling to the 4.0L/stroker's tummy or will it require Unobtanium buttered bisquits w mashed potatoes and gravy, to keep the acid from eating on the stomach wall or liner

By the way, i did get you comparison............just had to be a smart aaaa....And put a different twist to it.


Flash

[John]

I am still looking at the slow mo instant replay, 2_0, sent the tapes to John McEnroe. It is quite doable to build a roller for our motor but in all likelihood, the route taken with Joe will be the most economical for small quantities to get a quality item to start with, the longevity of this after grinding depends also on the the design parameters as discussed on the CNC link. The whole system evaluation. Quite a interesting project.
I am also sure a flat tappet camshaft, with adequate quality components, fed about 1200 ppm ZDDP oil will meet the needs of most builds, if you idle that motor though you are going to scuff and shorten cam/lifter life. A roller eliminates that concern. Seemingly most are looking for a street cam with improved performance, sounds like the cast roller cams coming OEM on many Detroit motors.
We could liven this up if we could get a cam grinder to join in. Your itch on this isn't likely going to go away... Hope not.
John

[Flash]

No is will never go away

Yeah every body want a performer......as i have voted...again but if we ever pave the road for this roller cam........
there would be a lot of us gear head, that would want a lot more cam.....to.....a.....play with.......for..a... science, of course


Flash

[John]

Oh yeah a lab coat to drive in...
John

[Flash]

By the way, just some FYI Chry 3.7 and 4.7 eng's us a Steel cam lobe, pressed on to a iron chunk....................that is welded to small metal tubes that are welded to the next lobe And this is cost affective?????????????????

The new 4.7(and i would assume 3.7) cam shaft is built similar to the previous one but hold the lobe to the shaft with a spline........Why did they change to a different style cam..............Because the cam manufacturer that makes the welded version.............You ready for this........................YA they went out of BUSSINESS, imagine that!..............so chry had to find a new cam manufacturer to build the cam.
Never did find the material that the lobes were made of for positive............................

One more interesting piece of info.............Chry "New World Engs" (All alu 4 cylinder engs) has a cast crank that is designed with a metal rod in the center that is removed after casting(this sounds like a snow machine lightening trick to me)
This is a ductile cast cam.................. but it is a 2 cam, 4 valve eng..............Not a good comparison, becuses of the much light spring pressure required with this kind of setup.

So the question of Ductile iron roller cam...........is still a question...........other then, we know that a treated iron cam(ductile ) was stated above as being as strong as a steel cam.................................................

From SIXPACk post above.
exhaust #1 cyl closing side of ramp

lifter and #1 intake and exhaust



It sure would have been nice(had his racing rules,NOT changed ) to have seen SIXPACK have one more cam make with the cam getting the ductile Treatment.............Just to see how much longer, it would have lasted before it failed(Darn "roller cam rule" should have waited one more year )


Flash