Hi, i am new to the forum as far as joining. I have been reading up on making my wifes 2000 JGC 4.0 a stroker motor. The motor blew a head gasket, i guess between the exhaust and a water jacket because if you take the radiator cap off while it is running, it will shoot water out of the radiator. the oil is black but does not look like the typical milkshake look from water in the oil, but i am not ruling that out. I wish i could just buy a new head, since it is the dreaded 0331 one, but figured i would just rebuild everything just to make sure because she is planning on keeping the car for a long time. She likes it.
I am planning on buying the stage III stroker kit from Clegg. Are they pretty reputable and is there kit fairly decent? Or would you guys recommend a better kit to start with? i am not a mechanic, but a pretty good wrench. Also should i get a newer head, like the tupy head, or try to get an older one and modify my accessories to fit. I would like to have everything bolt up if possible. Anyway, nice to meet you guys and girls and i hope that i can contribute to the forum somehow.
I haven't heard anything bad about Clegg engines. I guess that could be considered a good thing. One thing to watch out for on the Scat crank is that the journals tend to come a bit on the small size resulting in overly large bearing clearances. I don't know if they have changer that or not. On the kit I see they have a few upgrade options. I would check all but the Scat rod options, unless you want that as well. Be sure to read the FAQ section here as there is a bunch of good information there.
As for the head I would go with the TUPY head and maybe do a bit of clean up work on it.
Really, you could probably just buy a new head and gasket and install it. Black oil doesn't mean much other than it wasn't changed recently. If you want to see what kind of wear and/or coolant is in the oil you could always take an oil sample and mail it off for analysis.
I forgot to add that after it ran hot i replaced the thermostat and the top radiator hose because it split the top hose wide open. I then started the jeep only to hear a bad lifter or lifters ticking. They did not do that before it ran hot but now they do it the whole time it runs. It also misses at idle, i guess from the blown head gasket. I do not hear any bottom end noises. Do you think i could just replace the lifters and maybe the push rods with the new head and be good, or go ahead and rebuild the whole thing with the stroker motor. Thanks for the reply.
gilly102ci wrote:I forgot to add that after it ran hot i replaced the thermostat and the top radiator hose because it split the top hose wide open. I then started the jeep only to hear a bad lifter or lifters ticking. They did not do that before it ran hot but now they do it the whole time it runs. It also misses at idle, i guess from the blown head gasket. I do not hear any bottom end noises. Do you think i could just replace the lifters and maybe the push rods with the new head and be good, or go ahead and rebuild the whole thing with the stroker motor. Thanks for the reply.
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Guy
You sure it is a lifter and not an exhaust leak? Why did it overheat in the first place? How hot did it get? I get a bit nervous about overheated engines, things tend to get warped or cracked when overheated.
gilly102ci wrote:Hi, i am new to the forum as far as joining. I have been reading up on making my wifes 2000 JGC 4.0 a stroker motor. The motor blew a head gasket, i guess between the exhaust and a water jacket because if you take the radiator cap off while it is running, it will shoot water out of the radiator. the oil is black but does not look like the typical milkshake look from water in the oil, but i am not ruling that out. I wish i could just buy a new head, since it is the dreaded 0331 one, but figured i would just rebuild everything just to make sure because she is planning on keeping the car for a long time. She likes it.
I am planning on buying the stage III stroker kit from Clegg. Are they pretty reputable and is there kit fairly decent? Or would you guys recommend a better kit to start with? i am not a mechanic, but a pretty good wrench. Also should i get a newer head, like the tupy head, or try to get an older one and modify my accessories to fit. I would like to have everything bolt up if possible. Anyway, nice to meet you guys and girls and i hope that i can contribute to the forum somehow.
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Guy
Sounds like you either blew the head gasket or the head is cracked. With the oil galleries being on the opposite side of the engine to the water passages, you'll seldom see coolant mix with the oil if it's just a blown head gasket. However if the head is cracked, coolant can enter the crankcase and leave the oil looking like chocolate milkshake.
My advice is that you have the engine torn down to assess the level of damage and assess your options from there based on how much you can budget to rebuild the engine.
Clegg are pretty new to the Jeep stroker business so I don't think they've sold enough engines yet to see any feedback from customers. Probably worth a look if your existing engine is beyond repair and Clegg can provide you a new one with a warranty.
gilly102ci wrote:I forgot to add that after it ran hot i replaced the thermostat and the top radiator hose because it split the top hose wide open. I then started the jeep only to hear a bad lifter or lifters ticking. They did not do that before it ran hot but now they do it the whole time it runs. It also misses at idle, i guess from the blown head gasket. I do not hear any bottom end noises. Do you think i could just replace the lifters and maybe the push rods with the new head and be good, or go ahead and rebuild the whole thing with the stroker motor. Thanks for the reply.
___________
Guy
You sure it is a lifter and not an exhaust leak? Why did it overheat in the first place? How hot did it get? I get a bit nervous about overheated engines, things tend to get warped or cracked when overheated.
It is not an exhaust leak, it definitely sounds like lifter ticking.
It ran hot because of a blown head gasket i believe and i do not know how hot it got because it is my wifes car and i was not there when it ran hot. She said it was loosing power, which i assumed that was because of the blown head gasket fouling out a plug or two. It cranks and runs, just misses at idle because of the bad gasket letting water foul out the plugs.
gilly102ci wrote:Hi, i am new to the forum as far as joining. I have been reading up on making my wifes 2000 JGC 4.0 a stroker motor. The motor blew a head gasket, i guess between the exhaust and a water jacket because if you take the radiator cap off while it is running, it will shoot water out of the radiator. the oil is black but does not look like the typical milkshake look from water in the oil, but i am not ruling that out. I wish i could just buy a new head, since it is the dreaded 0331 one, but figured i would just rebuild everything just to make sure because she is planning on keeping the car for a long time. She likes it.
I am planning on buying the stage III stroker kit from Clegg. Are they pretty reputable and is there kit fairly decent? Or would you guys recommend a better kit to start with? i am not a mechanic, but a pretty good wrench. Also should i get a newer head, like the tupy head, or try to get an older one and modify my accessories to fit. I would like to have everything bolt up if possible. Anyway, nice to meet you guys and girls and i hope that i can contribute to the forum somehow.
____________
Guy
Sounds like you either blew the head gasket or the head is cracked. With the oil galleries being on the opposite side of the engine to the water passages, you'll seldom see coolant mix with the oil if it's just a blown head gasket. However if the head is cracked, coolant can enter the crankcase and leave the oil looking like chocolate .
My advice is that you have the engine torn down to assess the level of damage and assess your options from there based on how much you can budget to rebuild the engine.
Cleg are pretty new to the Jeep stroker business so I don't think they've sold enough engines yet to see any feedback from customers. Probably worth a look if your existing engine is beyond repair and duct can provide you a new one with a warranty.
I am sure the head gasket is blown because i have white smoke and water droplets coming out the tailpipe. I don't know yet if the head is cracked but i am assuming it is because it is the dreaded 0331 head. It might not be cracked as i do not know how hot my wife ran it before she shut it off and called me. I know what water in the oil looks like and it does not look like that but i am not sure if maybe some antifreeze and water made it in there. I don't know how much fluid it takes to make it look like a milkshake color.
I was planning on just buying a stroker kit from Cleg and building the motor myself. Would it be better and cheaper to just get a 258 crank and go from there? I haven't built a motor in years but i believe i can get it done as long as i get all of the right parts. I plan on getting new lifters and push rods due to the lifter tick that is there now that was not there before it ran hot. I am thinking that maybe the water had something to do with maybe messing up the lifters or maybe bent push rods.
I will be tearing it down this week to see what damage is in there. I just wanted to see if you guys thought that my motor was able to be rebuilt and what parts you thought i should use because we plan on keeping the jeep for a good while. I believe that when in doubt ask the professionals.
SilverXJ wrote:Now that you give the full details I would tear it down and inspect it first.
Yea, sorry i did not think of everything to put in the post the first time. I guess i had a brain fart.
I got some stuff done, but not much. I removed the valve cover only to find nothing really wrong. Clean as a whistle, No sign of water and antifreeze, or a cracked head, of course i have not removed it yet so i will see maybe tomorrow what the other side looks like. I may just order a head from titan or clearwater cylinder head, don't know which is best so i will have to do some research to see what everybody says.
I rechecked the dipstick and it reads full like always, so i do not think that any antifreeze made it there. I might just drain the oil and pull the pan to check things out in there and maybe put a new oil pump in just because. So any suggestions on stuff like water pumps, timing chain,head, or oil pump would be appreciated. I don't know which stroker kit to buy so i might just gather up the parts as i go along and piece mill a kit so i won't pay so much. Just really don't know which way to go because this just popped up all of a sudden without any warning and i was just not ready to be making these kinds of decisions, but i have to get the wifes car up and running so i can get my truck back.
The 0331 head usually cracks on the top between the no.3 & 4 exhaust valve springs and the only clue might be a smear of light brown emulsion or a bead of coolant. If it looks clean then more than likely the head isn't cracked and you may just have a blown head gasket.
If that proves to be the case, you should ask yourself why did the HG blow? Common reasons on a N/A engine are a clogged up radiator core (better to replace radiator in that circumstance) or a thermostat stuck closed so look for an underlying cause to avoid the HG blowing again.
If the engine is rebuildable then just replace the oil pump, timing set, water pump, lifters, and pushrods (if required) with new OEM items. To rebuild the engine into a stroker just buy a 258 crank, a set of +0.020" Keith Black IC944 pistons with rings, reuse your stock connecting rods (need to round off the corners of the small ends to gain clearance from underside of pistons), and have the cylinders overbored +0.020". If you keep the stock cam you'll end up with a 4.563L modified poor man's stroker. You'll also need to upsize the injectors and the Accel 24lb'ers with EV1 to EV6 adapter plugs work well in this application.
Cheromaniac wrote:The 0331 head usually cracks on the top between the no.3 & 4 exhaust valve springs and the only clue might be a smear of light brown emulsion or a bead of coolant. If it looks clean then more than likely the head isn't cracked and you may just have a blown head gasket.
If that proves to be the case, you should ask yourself why did the HG blow? Common reasons on a N/A engine are a clogged up radiator core (better to replace radiator in that circumstance) or a thermostat stuck closed so look for an underlying cause to avoid the HG blowing again.
If the engine is rebuildable then just replace the oil pump, timing set, water pump, lifters, and pushrods (if required) with new OEM items. To rebuild the engine into a stroker just buy a 258 crank, a set of +0.020" Keith Black IC944 pistons with rings, reuse your stock connecting rods (need to round off the corners of the small ends to gain clearance from underside of pistons), and have the cylinders overbored +0.020". If you keep the stock cam you'll end up with a 4.563L modified poor man's stroker. You'll also need to upsize the injectors and the Accel 24lb'ers with EV1 to EV6 adapter plugs work well in this application.
Thank you Cheromaniac, i think this is just the info i was hoping to get and i plan on taking your advise. I think i am just going to get it back to where it was with the items you suggested, to get my wife back on the road,then collect the items you posted for the stroker motor, then at a better time install the parts for the stroker motor. I talked to Titan about their new head and it sounds like good one, any suggestions on maybe a better quality head than theirs? Or is their head a good product for my stroker motor? Sorry for all of the questions, but i would like to do this right the first time so i do not find out i should have bought something better instead of what i ended up getting. I appreciate all of the info from all of you guys that know what you are doing. I plan to take some pictures here and there because i know some people like to see pic's. Here is a pic of my bike i have been working on for a while for those who like motorcycles. Took me a while to figure out how to get pic's to show up here.
gilly102ci wrote:I think i am just going to get it back to where it was with the items you suggested, to get my wife back on the road,then collect the items you posted for the stroker motor, then at a better time install the parts for the stroker motor.
You mean do a stock rebuild and then tear the engine down again to build it into a stroker? That doesn't make any sense at all unless you have extra money to burn on labor charges (plus another set of pistons, gaskets, seals, and machine shop work) to do the job twice.
Just build it as a stroker from the outset and be done with it.
gilly102ci wrote:I think i am just going to get it back to where it was with the items you suggested, to get my wife back on the road,then collect the items you posted for the stroker motor, then at a better time install the parts for the stroker motor.
You mean do a stock rebuild and then tear the engine down again to build it into a stroker? That doesn't make any sense at all unless you have extra money to burn on labor charges (plus another set of pistons, gaskets, seals, and machine shop work) to do the job twice.
Just build it as a stroker from the outset and be done with it.
Well, i was planning on leaving the block intact if i did not see anything wrong in there and just replacing the water pump, oil pump, lifters,and push rods if i needed to, and just putting a better head on there, because of the 0331 head, and just get it back going, my wife works out of this vehicle, but maybe you have a point, since i am that far into it might as well spend the extra money and do the stroker. I was just looking for a quick fix for now to get her back on the road since the machine work is going to take some time before i could get started putting it back together. But i understand what you are getting at and will probably end up going that way.
gilly102ci wrote:I think i am just going to get it back to where it was with the items you suggested, to get my wife back on the road,then collect the items you posted for the stroker motor, then at a better time install the parts for the stroker motor.
You mean do a stock rebuild and then tear the engine down again to build it into a stroker? That doesn't make any sense at all unless you have extra money to burn on labor charges (plus another set of pistons, gaskets, seals, and machine shop work) to do the job twice.
Just build it as a stroker from the outset and be done with it.
Well, i was planning on leaving the block intact if i did not see anything wrong in there and just replacing the water pump, oil pump, lifters,and push rods if i needed to, and just putting a better head on there, because of the 0331 head, and just get it back going, my wife works out of this vehicle, but maybe you have a point, since i am that far into it might as well spend the extra money and do the stroker. I was just looking for a quick fix for now to get her back on the road since the machine work is going to take some time before i could get started putting it back together. But i understand what you are getting at and will probably end up going that way.
Why change the oil pump? How many miles on this engine? What was the oil pressure? Unless it was low I would leave the oil pump alone. Pulling the pan to change the pump would just be a PITA. If you have a bad lifter then change the lifters, don't buy pushrods until you have it back together so you can get the right height.
gilly102ci wrote:I think i am just going to get it back to where it was with the items you suggested, to get my wife back on the road,then collect the items you posted for the stroker motor, then at a better time install the parts for the stroker motor.
You mean do a stock rebuild and then tear the engine down again to build it into a stroker? That doesn't make any sense at all unless you have extra money to burn on labor charges (plus another set of pistons, gaskets, seals, and machine shop work) to do the job twice.
Just build it as a stroker from the outset and be done with it.
Well, i was planning on leaving the block intact if i did not see anything wrong in there and just replacing the water pump, oil pump, lifters,and push rods if i needed to, and just putting a better head on there, because of the 0331 head, and just get it back going, my wife works out of this vehicle, but maybe you have a point, since i am that far into it might as well spend the extra money and do the stroker. I was just looking for a quick fix for now to get her back on the road since the machine work is going to take some time before i could get started putting it back together. But i understand what you are getting at and will probably end up going that way.
Why change the oil pump? How many miles on this engine? What was the oil pressure? Unless it was low I would leave the oil pump alone. Pulling the pan to change the pump would just be a PITA. If you have a bad lifter then change the lifters, don't buy pushrods until you have it back together so you can get the right height.
Nice bike.
It has over 188,000 miles on it is why i figured i would change the oil pump and other stuff. It had good oil pressure, last i saw while it was running was like 40 lbs. The jeep is stock right now so i figured that stock push rods would be the right length. I did not know i had to have push rod made to a special length. I will probably go ahead and pull the motor and have the machine work done to the block and just build a stroker. I just hate spending that much cash right now because me and my wife are trying to adopt a little girl we have had for 2 years and that will probably empty my wallet.
