FNG 4.6 Long Rod

[Antifreeze2]

I've been researching for months and I finally started acquiring some parts. I still need the TJ running for a bit so I won't rip the block out til January.
9.463 SCR, 8.069 DCR

99 intake manifold
93 HO head with 2.02/1.62 valves and Crower dual springs, retainers, keepers.
4.0 rods

What is still on the shopping list -
258 crank 12 counterweight
Icon 944 pistons .030 - 21cc dish
ARP rod bolts
Cloyes dual roller
Crower custom grind camshaft (once I get flow numbers from the head)
Crower high lube lifters
Bosch type 3 injectors
.043 gasket
some pushrods, piston rings, and other essentials

I've been frequenting this forum since December last year. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Antifreeze2]

Here is a diary I've been keeping elsewhere, to let everyone know how it progressed

.030" Bore
9.77:1 - SCR
8.375:1 - DCR

Crank - stock AMC 258 3727 casting (hopefully under $100)
̶R̶o̶d̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶c̶k̶ ̶A̶M̶C̶ ̶2̶5̶8̶ ̶5̶.̶8̶7̶5̶"̶ ̶(̶h̶o̶p̶e̶f̶u̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶$̶1̶0̶0̶)̶
̶P̶i̶s̶t̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶H̶8̶2̶5̶C̶P̶ ̶+̶ ̶.̶0̶3̶0̶"̶,̶ ̶1̶.̶5̶9̶2̶ ̶c̶d̶,̶ ̶.̶9̶3̶1̶ ̶p̶i̶n̶ ̶(̶$̶3̶0̶ ̶x̶ ̶6̶ ̶@̶ ̶S̶u̶m̶m̶i̶t̶)̶
Rings - TBD
̶C̶a̶m̶/̶l̶i̶f̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶C̶o̶m̶p̶ ̶6̶8̶-̶2̶3̶1̶-̶4̶,̶ ̶2̶5̶0̶/̶2̶5̶8̶,̶ ̶.̶4̶6̶2̶/̶.̶4̶8̶5̶ ̶(̶$̶1̶8̶2̶ ̶@̶ ̶S̶u̶m̶m̶i̶t̶)̶
̶S̶p̶r̶i̶n̶g̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶M̶o̶p̶a̶r̶ ̶P̶5̶2̶4̶9̶4̶6̶4̶,̶ ̶.̶4̶0̶0̶/̶.̶5̶2̶5̶ ̶(̶$̶1̶0̶ ̶x̶ ̶1̶2̶)̶
̶R̶e̶t̶a̶i̶n̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶M̶o̶p̶a̶r̶ ̶P̶4̶4̶5̶2̶0̶3̶2̶ ̶ ̶(̶$̶8̶.̶5̶0̶ ̶x̶ ̶1̶2̶)̶
̶S̶e̶a̶l̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶M̶o̶p̶a̶r̶ ̶P̶4̶5̶2̶9̶2̶4̶0̶ ̶(̶$̶1̶5̶.̶5̶0̶ ̶s̶e̶t̶)̶
̶K̶e̶e̶p̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶M̶o̶p̶a̶r̶ ̶P̶4̶5̶2̶9̶2̶1̶8̶ ̶(̶$̶1̶5̶.̶5̶0̶ ̶8̶m̶m̶ ̶s̶e̶t̶)
̶I̶n̶j̶e̶c̶t̶o̶r̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶2̶4̶l̶b̶ ̶F̶o̶r̶d̶ ̶(̶l̶a̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶r̶o̶u̶n̶d̶)̶

Machine work:
Hot tank
Mag block and head
Bore/Hone
Deck check
Cam Bearings
Rod Bolts
Valvetrain assembly

Update --------
ARP rod bolts 112-6001 - $40 set
Main Bearings -
Rod Bearings -
Cam Bearings -

Piston choice to make,
$25/ 677cp - 9.4:1 CR, 8.07:1 DCR
$21 / H802cp/H825cp - 9.7:1 CR, 8.33:1 DCR
Rule of thumb so far is no higher than 8.1 dynamic compression ratio, but I still need to figure out Quench. And whether or not the deck/heads will have to be milled.
- And apparently every DCR equation/calculator gives a different number.

09-Oct-2011
Decided to split the projects into 2 parts. Top end and bottom end. That being said, I've spent a lot of time researching top end a bunch this weekend.

New parts list:
Springs - 12 x Crower 68404 ($9.50 each or $70 for 8)
+.05" Retainers - 12 x Crower 87060M-1 ($4.50 Crower)
10* Keepers - 12 x Crower 86118 - PR ($5 Summit)
̶L̶S̶1̶ ̶V̶a̶l̶v̶e̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶$̶1̶0̶0̶ ̶(̶2̶.̶0̶ ̶i̶n̶/̶1̶.̶5̶5̶1̶ ̶e̶x̶,̶ ̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶l̶o̶v̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶2̶.̶0̶2̶/̶1̶.̶6̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶r̶u̶n̶ ̶1̶3̶0̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶ ̶s̶e̶t̶,̶ ̶2̶6̶0̶ ̶t̶o̶t̶a̶l̶)̶
Rocker arms - 3242393K (Morris 4x4 $50)
Valve Seals - . . . waiting for test assembly to find out exact measurements. Hopefully $16 bucks .530" 8mm

For Later
Injectors - Bosche Type III (PA Injectors on Ebay for $150)
Cam - Crower 44915 ($150 Summit)
Lifters - Crower 66031X3-12 ($81 Crower)
Timing Chain/Gears - Cloyes Gear 9-3127 ($142 Summit)

10-Oct-2011
Picked up a used head for $75 from Mack's in Urbana. Got quoted labor from Hendrick Precision Engines, $225 for everything head related. May try KB Cores in Kankakee for 258 crank & rods, and possibly a 4.0 block, depending on prices.
Found valves on ebay for $120. Very very happy. 2.020/1.620

12-Oct-2011
Dropped the head off at Hendrick, valves should be here tomorrow, test springs monday, and intake manifold sometime in the near future.

14-Oct-2011
Got the shiney undercut supersize valves and found out that the valve guides are still good. Head looks pretty now that it has been cleaned and found free of cracks.
Now for the bad - Turns out that short rod strokers are not as reliable as long rod. I will now be reusing my current rods, but having to buy forged pistons. Cool thing is that Dave Crower can make a custom camshaft after I flow test the head. Pretty exciting stuff.

Pistons - Icon ICC944-030 ($420 Summit)
Cam - Crower custom grind ($160)
as it stands, I will be at 9.463 SCR, 8.06 DCR

17-Oct-2011
Got my Crower test set, but the keepers look small, because they are. Recieved 7* keepers that were listed as 10*, which is going to suck as I wait at least a week for a replacement, which I am not sure if it even exsists. 1 week ago my ebay friend with a manfold said he shipped it, today he dropped it off at the post office. Sad day for jeep project.

07-Nov-2011
No new keepers yet, emailed Crower, seems like they forgot. Very not happy. I was hoping this would be done by Turkey Day.

13-Jan-2012
Lots has happened, yet nothing at all. Did a home port and polish and picked up a 12 weight crank in Atlanta. Crower sent me another set of keepers but they suck as well because of my choice in valves. Found some kepers that were magnum specific and hopefully 7*. Decided to go with a different setup in Springs/Keepers. Beehive is in fact a superior technology and I found some Comps springs that are hopefully perfect (26125, 701 retainer). Also pulled the trigger on the timing set and pistons. All that's left: bearings, gaskets, valve seals, cam, lifters, pushrods.

17-Jan-2012
Pistons and timing set came in. Got $20 off from Summit, so I ordered the ARP bolt rods and Crower cam saver lifters. Waiting for the damn locks to come in.

23-Jan-2012
Locks and retainers aren't getting along, so I ordered some Hemi retainers that should be ok. Decided to pull the trigger on Crower SS RR's as well as a bunch of misc crap. Remaining: Cam (waiting on flow numbers from head), Pushrods (waiting on assembly to measure), and Bearings (waiting on crank to be ground to see exact measurement).

http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... =15&t=2974

28-Jan-2012
Valvetrain looks good to me. Machinist is out for the weekend. I'll swing by on Tuesday once I get Crower SS RR's in the mail. Got the Elgin freeze plugs today, 4x 2" brass, 1 x 2 9/56" or whatever Steel, and 2 brass tiny ones. I feel like something is missing. Napa has 2" freeze plugs for about $3 each.

[Muad'Dib]

Now for the bad - Turns out that short rod strokers are not as reliable as long rod. I will now be reusing my current rods, but having to buy forged pistons.

HUH????? This is not true at all.

[Antifreeze2]

At the time, I was reading a lot of hot rod engine building mags which discussed the rod length to stroke ratio. To my understanding, the long rod will operate smoother with less side load on the piston walls - hence more efficient.

[604rail_king]

correct !

however the majority of the 4.x strokers built on this forum are not high hp or revvers and side load might not be as critical. the difference with between your average Jeep LR vs SR is negligible as stated & tested by various members. the LR is more preferred in general but both will work great for the street or trail jeep.

LR or SR is usually determined by a persons parts choice, machining/work required, or mainly budget.

[Antifreeze2]

Dropped off springs n stuff at the machine shop. Flow testing the head will run between 300-700, depending on who I talk to in both Indianapolis and Chicago areas. I'll just have to pray/flip a coin while looking at my cam spreadsheet to pick one that will work. FML

[Antifreeze2]

If my math holds true, running 0 deck with 21.7cc dish and 61cc chambers will yield 8.149 DCR with a Comp 68-231-4.
The $145 cam becomes $198 for a custom grind + $109.20 for nitriding. Twice what I wanted to pay, but hopefully this will be good insurance against cam failure.

[6TIME]

Now for the bad - Turns out that short rod strokers are not as reliable as long rod. I will now be reusing my current rods, but having to buy forged pistons.

HUH????? This is not true at all.

X2! Remember, these so called "short rod" stroker motors are based on the 258, Which was a very very reliable motor......I just tore one down for the crank and rods a month ago with 200k, it had barely any skirt wear.

[Antifreeze2]

3 days later, the engine is out and the block dismantled. The most trouble I had was separating the block from the bell housing. Everything looked fairly good. The flywheel needs resurfacing and I am glad I picked up a new clutch (Luk Gold). One key issue me thinks is a connecting rod that looks like a banana. Can this be straightened or should I order a new one and hope it works?

Question 2: I am very concerned about camwalk and the issues others have had. I thought there was supposed to be a spring somewhere with respect to the cam bolt. All I had was a bolt + washer holding the gear in place.

[Retlaw01XJ]

I see a pin in the center of the cam bolt. There's a spring behind it.
A couple of guys replaced the pin/spring with a solid pin... that's what I did too.

Replace the rod, It's only good for a Christmas tree ornament now!

[IH 392]

Yep the pin is clearly visible in your photo, and I bet the spring is there too, and yes that rod is a paper weight!

[Antifreeze2]

Ahh, I always expected the spring to be . . . bigger. (which is what she said, I know)

[Antifreeze2]

More pics of new and old.

Has anyone used Crower Cam-Saver lifters? They advertise 20%-30% more oil delivered to the cam lobes. It definitely isn't the size of the oil hole, that's for sure--.091" (same as stock)

Stock left, Crower right


ICC 944






Parts Mayhem

[Antifreeze2]

I remember a thread about dual roller vs single chain, and I now see the reasoning as to why some feel the single is stronger. There are 9 connecting links with shorter pins vs 7 with longer pins. My assumption is that because the dual gears are wider overall, it will be a better distribution of weight. I'm not an engineer, nor expert though.

[SilverXJ]

There have been a few failures using the single style timing chain. Its not stronger.

As for the Crower Cam saver lifters, I don't believe in them that much. The lifter has a groove cut in the side. However the lifter is constantly rotating, which doesn't put the groove over the area where it needs to be, over the lobe before it enters under the lifter. Nice idea, but I am not sure it works that well. On the other hand you can groove the lifter bores directly above the cam lobe.