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Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

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Muad'Dib
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Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Post by Muad'Dib » February 5th, 2011, 1:43 pm

Information / Whatever! / Boring Stuff
Ok .. its tax time and if you have been following me at all you probably know ive been without my Jeep for at least 6 months now. I threw a rod last year and tried to get it running on the cheap but it just didnt work out.. so now im here to build my engine the way i think i should.

Please keep in mind that although im very good with Computers and learn very quickly, im still an noob. Ive never really built an engine before (except for that failed rebuild).. so i need as much guidance as you can provide. Thanks for all that you guys do to help noobs like me.
Another note; if you happen to know of a part that costs less, have it or know someone who has it and wants to sell it... please let me know! I would love to take it off thier hands so we could both benefit!

So here was my first thread when i thought i was going to start a stroker build:

http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... f=15&t=790

Since then the crank has been stored with the old bearings taped on it with assembly lube between the crank and bearings.

Ok so a little bit about me and what i want to do....

I live in Bend Oregon which is approx. 3,600ft above sea level. I live and work here... although on occasion i like to travel to the valley, or down to California to visit family. Thats about the extent of the Jeeps journies for now. Eventually i would sure like to take it out to Moab and places like that but with the way my life has been lately i just dont see that happening anytime in the near future.

I run my Jeep hard as a DD. I have a heavy foot and i enjoy driving fast. I plan on for now using this Jeep as my DD. I like to screw off with my friends at the Stop Light, and give myself whiplash.. lol. I currently dont wheel much... but someday if time and money allows i will. So this build should be mainly Street use. On to it then

The Build:
This is a 4.7L Build with a SCR of 9.68 and a DCR of 8.47. (Hoping to get away with this since im at 3500ft)
I plan on running Premium fuel. If i take trips to lower altitude i dont mind throwing in some octane booster.
Quench is .044
Stroker.pdf
DegreeCam.xlsx
Parts:
Here is my parts breakdown. I give the part, part number, cost and where to purchase it. I know i find it usefull that way and im sure other noobs like me can use it to thier advantage as well. Please remember that some of the parts are specific to my build because of what year computer i am using. For example the Flex Plate, since i have a 90 Cherokee. Most other parts are chosen for a 94 Cherokee since thats the Year Range (91-95) Head and block im using.
Part
Model or Casting Number
Price
Link or where i got it
4.2L Crankshaft 4CW 3235477 Free Craigslist
Crank Spacer HESBS $39 http://hesco.us/shop.asp?action=details ... 565&catId=
4.0L Block 53008405 $150 Craigslist
Connecting Rods 707 $40 IH 392 on JeepStrokers.com
Speed Pro Hyper Pistons 60 Over H825CP-60 $185 falconglobal on Ebay
Piston Dishing to 20cc's N/A $75 Oletshot on JeepStrokers.com
Piston Rings Moly Perfect Circle 40514CP-060 $36 falconglobal on ebay
Main Bearings Clevite (.010) MS1947P10 $71 falconglobal on ebay
Rod Bearings Clevite (0.10) (x6) CB960P10 $36 falconglobal on ebay
Camshaft Bearings Clevite SH1980S $19 falconglobal on ebay
Cylinder Head 7120 $290 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chrysler ... ccessories
Rockers / Bridges / Pivots Kit Sealed Power (x6) R905 $72 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... rtnum=R905
Mopar Purple Camshaft P4529229AC $186 http://www.monicattichrysler.com/comers ... roduct=783
Smith Bros. Pushrods 5/16 Di .083 Wall 9.5" Length 581-9500 $83 http://www.pushrods.net (Got them locally!)
TPS Adapter (since im using RENIX Computer) 640177 $149 http://hesco.us/shop.asp?action=details ... 563&catId=
Accell Injectors (x8) 150826 $100 uscav_Scout on JeepStrokers.com
MLS Head Gasket (.44) 54249S $20 Got it on JeepStrokers.com
JP Performance Timing Set (Double Roller) JP5629 $89 falconglobal on ebay
Oil Pump Standard Volume M-81A $60 Local auto parts store purchased for cheap rebuild that failed
Elgin Brass Freeze Plugs EP256BR $18 falconglobal on ebay
99+ Intake Manifold with Dakota 68mm TB and built in Spacer N/A $220 uscav_Scout on JeepStrokers.com
Header / Exhaust Manifold APN 15343 $170 http://www.ineedparts.com/index.php?tar ... t_id=15343
Royal Purple Assembly Lube 1335 $20 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RPO-01335/
Harmonic Balancer 102005 $37 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... num=102005
Flex Plate (RENIX) 1691311 $68 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... um=1691311
Motor Mount Kit Brown Dog SU2572-0HX $330 http://browndogindustries.com/SU2572-0H ... ckets.aspx
Push Rod Length Checker 7704-1 $20 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-7704-1/
91-95 Intake Accessories N/A $13 U-Pull-It
Throttle cable 91-95 N/A $13 U-Pull-It
Comp Break in Oil 12qt 1590-12 $63 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1590-12/
Intake Manifold Ceramic Coated (Locally) N/A $125 http://www.armordillopowder.com
ARP Rod Bolts 112-6001 $54 Local Machine Shop
Head Bolts chbs-1128 $46 http://headbolts.com/Jeep-AMC-232-244-2 ... bolts.html
Engine Fastner Kit 6-3732 $62 http://headbolts.com/Jeep-AMC-232-244-2 ... bolts.html
Hardware Finishing Kit fka-1 $9 http://headbolts.com/Jeep-AMC-232-244-2 ... bolts.html
Cylinder Head CC Kit SP90005 $23 http://www.steigerperformance.com/products/sp90005.html
Exhaust Manifold Ceramic Coated (Locally) N/A $75 http://www.armordillopowder.com
NGK Spark Plugs (x6) 4291 or ZFR6F11 $16 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... um=ZFR6F11
Valve Springs (x12) P4529215 $95 http://www.monicattichrysler.com/comers ... roduct=776
Distributer Cap and Rotor 3D1114A $40 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... um=3D1114A
Stant Thermostat 34109 $13 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... tnum=34109
O-Ring Kit (x3) GS33276 $10 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... um=GS33276
Thermostat Housing Gasket C24003 $5 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... num=C24003
Timing Cover Gasket Kit JV1166 $13 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... num=JV1166
Rear Main Seal JV1611 $16 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... num=JV1611
Water Pump Gasket K31313 $6 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... num=K31313
DownPipe aka Front Pipe 44626 $52 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... tnum=44626
Kick Down aka Detent aka Throttle Valve Cable 52077578 $20 http://www.jeep4x4center.com/product-in ... r=52077578
Power Steering Pump Bracket/Pulley N/A $26 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0809767419
Front CCV Elbow 53030991 $4 http://www.chryslerpartsdirect.com/
Rear CCV Elbow 53030495 $5 http://www.chryslerpartsdirect.com/
Rear CCV Tube 4854265 $9 http://www.chryslerpartsdirect.com/
Front CCV Tube 53006239 $8 http://www.chryslerpartsdirect.com/
Ford Rocker Arm Pedestal Shim M-6529-A302 $12 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6529-A302/
96 Valve Cover N/A $34 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0461525332
96+ Valve Cover Torque Limiter Sleeves 53020598AB $10 Local Junk Yard
92 Fuel Hard Lines (Frame Rail) N/A $20 Local Junk Yard
96+ Valve Cover Grommets 2946079 $10 http://www.teamcherokee.com/Emissions/index.html
99 Grand Cherokee Power Steering Pump N/A $60 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0607127789
96+ Valve Cover Bolt Grommets 53010424 $35 http://www.chryslerpartsdirect.com/
FPR O-Rings 5013721AB $16 http://www.chryslerpartsdirect.com/
5/16 Fuel Line O-Ring Kit (x2) 83502745 $13 http://www.jeep4x4center.com/product-in ... r=83502745
3/8 Fuel Line O-Ring Kit (x2) 83504447 $15 http://www.jeep4x4center.com/product-in ... r=83504447
Pioneer Pipe Plugs (x2) PP554 $1 Local Machine Shop
Sealed Power Expansion Plug (x2) 381-7066 $6 Local Machine Shop
Autometer Dual Gauge Pod ATM-15210 $43 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATM-15210/
AEM UEGO Wideband 30-4100 $170 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0316301990
BOSCH 02 Sensor 12009 $40 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 8061069670
Valve Cover Powder Coated and a few misc parts Sandblasted N/A $40 http://www.armordillopowder.com
02 Sensor bung welded on Downpipe N/A $40 Local Exhaust Shop
Parts total : 3,933
Stroker.xlsx
Machine Work:

Block: DONE!

1. hot tank $50
2. magnaflux. $36
3. line hone the main bearing bores if needed. $128
4. bore and hone to .060. $98
5. Mill Block Deck to .000 $140
6. Install cam bearings. $35
7. Install Freeze Plugs. $28

Crankshaft: DONE!

1. hot tank.
2. Magnaflux
3. grind mains and rods to .010.
4. Chamfer oil holes. #1-4 = $140
5. Balance with HB and FP. $78

Connecting Rods: DONE!

1. hot tank.
2. shot peen.
3. check for straightness.
4. Install ARP Rod Bolts
5. Resize Big End
6. weight balance.
Total for the above: $117
7. install pistons. $48

Intake Manifold: DONE!

1. Checked for Flatness and made "Flat" $70

Exhaust Manifold: DONE!

1. Checked for Flatness and made "Flat" $40

Cylinder Head: DONE!

1. Valve Stem Seals $17
2. Valve Job $100
3. Resurface Head $48

Total approx Machine Shop work: $1173

Projected Total Cost:

$5,106

Which doesnt include things i have missed so far. I also plan on getting a few parts powder coated, and my headers coated in ceramic.... So its possible i could reach about $5,000. I was thinking of going with Roller Rockers... but they are $$$$ and from what im reading lately we dont really need them in our Jeeps... and its better to keep the stock style.

Any input is extremely appreciated!!
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If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by Tinga » February 5th, 2011, 2:03 pm

Looking forward to keeping up with this build. I've got a motor that's waiting to get dropped in.
I'm not sure how far you are willing to travel, but down south of Eugene a bit a guy is selling a '00 "engine" for $300. Not sure if thats the block AND head or what's included.

I've got the Harland Sharp RR and I'm pretty sure our mechanic DIDN'T have the head milled to compensate for them, so I might run stockers for now or even sell them if you were interested.

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Muad'Dib
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Vehicle Model: Cherokee
Location: Bend, Oregon
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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by Muad'Dib » February 5th, 2011, 2:16 pm

Ive actually already got a block and a couple other parts on the list... i just put them on there for reference and so everyone can have a fairly accurate price of what it all costs.

I dont think im going the Roller Rocker route. I WAS going to... but they cost too much money.. and the way my build is looking i dont want to go over 5,000 (hell i only paid about 3,500 for the Jeep years ago!).. thats definetly my limit! I may add them down the road.. but not right now.
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by SilverXJ » February 5th, 2011, 5:43 pm

looks good. I would look on ebay for some Hasting rings. I don't recall our numbers but i believe the Hasting 606 would fit as well and they should be the same price as the Jeep ones... but they are for a V8 so you will have extras in case you have a problem.. and you might also find them cheaper. I'll check the part number tomorrow at storage.

I had some problems with my King bearings. They were rubbing hard in the crush area due to them being thicker there which was verified by comparing to a set of Clevites. King asked me to send them back to them, in December. I sent them back and they have since ignore me. The rod bearings were fine though.

I would also recommend the Clevite cam bearings over the Perfect Circles. I have seen my fair share of cam bearings and the Clevites had the nicest finish on them.

That is a very good price on the injectors for new ones. However they don't have the correct style for the Renix harness, you would need adapters for them. You would also want to verify what they flow on the 39PSI Renix fuel rail.

On the timing chain I would look at a Cloyes adjustable double roller. You may be able to find a cheaper price than Mopar and the Mopar is probably a repackaged Cloyes. And i don't see if it is adjustable or not. I would ask Falcon On ebay about those and anything else you haven't purchased. Their prices are usually pretty good.

The head looks good and is a great price for a ported head. Be sure to match the intake to the head ports.

Do you have the K&N CAI yet? If not you could look into the Volant intake as it has a larger opening for the filter. If you want to go that way I have an Amsoil part number for a huge filter to fit it. The only drawback is that it doesn't come with a very good heat shield so i would advise you to fabricate one. AFE also has a nice setup. However, you might be able to find a used K&N cheap or maybe even w/o an air filter.

Also, are you going to degree the cam in or have the machine shop do it? I don't see that in your machine work nor do I see a degree wheel listed in your build.

I don't have a company to recommend on the rods. I thought there was a company on ebay that sold them with ARP hardware but I couldn't find them with a current listing. Also, if you do find a set on ebay keep and eye on what state and city they come from. The ARP hardware is typically $90 and another $100 to resize plus the cost of the used rods.

And yes, the roller rocker price isn't cheap. I think mine was like $400 for the adjustables + spacers. Plus that is something you can always add later. I am pretty sure you will have enough piston to valve clearance for the 1.7:1 ratios but I would check with silly putty when you are assembling your engine if you plan to use them in the future. You really should check piston to valve clearance anyhow when you are assembling it.

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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by IH 392 » February 5th, 2011, 6:59 pm

So what's wrong with the rods that came in your donor 258?, if you feel the "need" for ARP bolts they can be installed and resized for less or about the same as rebuilt ones.
I don't know why everyone thinks they need "707" castings? or ARP bolts for that matter??, AMC wasn't known for rod failures, the stock cast rods hold up just fine in the 343 and 360 V8's, they'll take anything a six cylinder can throw at them! and just putting it out there the one and only engine I put other than stock replacement rod bolts in is my 360 (MILODON), but it makes about 520HP.
IMHO

If you still want a set of 707 rods I probably have several sets over at dads house in my junk?
You can get more power out of ANY engine!!!
ASE Master certified engine machinist, gas and diesel

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Muad'Dib
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Posts: 1491
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Stroker Displacement: 4.7L
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Vehicle Model: Cherokee
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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by Muad'Dib » February 5th, 2011, 8:00 pm

Sorry Silver i had to split up your post to make it more readable.. i got a headache trying to read it all bunched together ;) I also responded in RED below
SilverXJ wrote:looks good. I would look on ebay for some Hasting rings. I don't recall our numbers but i believe the Hasting 606 would fit as well and they should be the same price as the Jeep ones... but they are for a V8 so you will have extras in case you have a problem.. and you might also find them cheaper. I'll check the part number tomorrow at storage.
Thats cool... I saw your post on Rings which made me look for some Hastings, but somehow i got on the Perfect Circle ones and just decided to go with them..

I had some problems with my King bearings. They were rubbing hard in the crush area due to them being thicker there which was verified by comparing to a set of Clevites. King asked me to send them back to them, in December. I sent them back and they have since ignore me. The rod bearings were fine though.
Im going to try the King bearings anyway. Just to be stubborn ;) No i want to see if i get the same result you did... Worst case scenario i send them back and get a refund.

I would also recommend the Clevite cam bearings over the Perfect Circles. I have seen my fair share of cam bearings and the Clevites had the nicest finish on them.
With how many problems you have had with cam bearings should i really trust your judgement on this one????????? ;)

That is a very good price on the injectors for new ones. However they don't have the correct style for the Renix harness, you would need adapters for them. You would also want to verify what they flow on the 39PSI Renix fuel rail.
Im not sure if im going to use the RENIX fuel rail or not yet. Either way i will have an adjustable FPR so it shouldnt matter right?? Also thanks for the heads up on the Injectors. I didnt even realise they were the wrong style.

On the timing chain I would look at a Cloyes adjustable double roller. You may be able to find a cheaper price than Mopar and the Mopar is probably a repackaged Cloyes. And i don't see if it is adjustable or not. I would ask Falcon On ebay about those and anything else you haven't purchased. Their prices are usually pretty good.
I sent a message to "Falcon" on ebay to see if they can help me out. Im not too picky on the Timing set just as long as its double roller. Maybe i should just go for the JP set??

The head looks good and is a great price for a ported head. Be sure to match the intake to the head ports.
Will do...

Do you have the K&N CAI yet? If not you could look into the Volant intake as it has a larger opening for the filter. If you want to go that way I have an Amsoil part number for a huge filter to fit it. The only drawback is that it doesn't come with a very good heat shield so i would advise you to fabricate one. AFE also has a nice setup. However, you might be able to find a used K&N cheap or maybe even w/o an air filter.
Dont have the K&N Yet. I would really like to find one used just havent had any luck. If i dont get it i will go with the AFE. I just want to have a nice Set-up this time around. Ive been running the XJ-Armor "50 state legal" air tube forever now. (its similar to Rustys). I even had the sheet metal guys at my old Job fab up a heat shield out of aluminum.

Also, are you going to degree the cam in or have the machine shop do it? I don't see that in your machine work nor do I see a degree wheel listed in your build.
If they degree the cam would they have to do the assembly? If so, then i will have to do it and i will need some help unless its alot easier than i think it is... Never done it and it looks intimidating...

I don't have a company to recommend on the rods. I thought there was a company on ebay that sold them with ARP hardware but I couldn't find them with a current listing. Also, if you do find a set on ebay keep and eye on what state and city they come from. The ARP hardware is typically $90 and another $100 to resize plus the cost of the used rods.
PAW used to sell a set of rods that were all cleaned up with ARP bolts, and resized ends. But they stopped doing them which is a huge bummer :(.

And yes, the roller rocker price isn't cheap. I think mine was like $400 for the adjustables + spacers. Plus that is something you can always add later. I am pretty sure you will have enough piston to valve clearance for the 1.7:1 ratios but I would check with silly putty when you are assembling your engine if you plan to use them in the future. You really should check piston to valve clearance anyhow when you are assembling it.
Do you think this build will make a ton of power?
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Muad'Dib
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Stroker Displacement: 4.7L
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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by Muad'Dib » February 5th, 2011, 8:02 pm

IH 392 wrote:So what's wrong with the rods that came in your donor 258?, if you feel the "need" for ARP bolts they can be installed and resized for less or about the same as rebuilt ones.
I don't know why everyone thinks they need "707" castings? or ARP bolts for that matter??, AMC wasn't known for rod failures, the stock cast rods hold up just fine in the 343 and 360 V8's, they'll take anything a six cylinder can throw at them! and just putting it out there the one and only engine I put other than stock replacement rod bolts in is my 360 (MILODON), but it makes about 520HP.
IMHO

If you still want a set of 707 rods I probably have several sets over at dads house in my junk?
When my old Girl and i broke up and i moved, i ended up tossing them. I didnt think i was going to use them and i was moving so i was just tossing a bunch of crap laying in the Garage. I guess its not that important for me to get 707 casting.. i just want a set at this point that i can count on ;) If you find some let me know what you want for them. thanks.
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Muad'Dib
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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by Muad'Dib » February 5th, 2011, 11:35 pm

Updated the main post with new injectors, TB, Intake, and rods.
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Muad'Dib
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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by Muad'Dib » February 12th, 2011, 12:11 am

I updated the main post with new prices and parts. I got my first parts today. Thanks uscav_Scout for the Manifold and injectors!

Quick pic of the Manifold before it took it to get Ceramic Coated:

Image
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Muad'Dib
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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by Muad'Dib » February 18th, 2011, 4:49 pm

Reconditioned Rods with ARP Rod bolts...

Image

Image

Image
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by IH 392 » February 18th, 2011, 5:52 pm

That didn't take long!, they cleaned up real nice!
You can get more power out of ANY engine!!!
ASE Master certified engine machinist, gas and diesel

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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by Muad'Dib » February 18th, 2011, 8:33 pm

Thanks for the hook up man i appreciate that! It was nice meeting you.


Parts are going to slowly start rolling in on a regular bases... Still need to CC the head once it gets here so i can start calculating more accuratly.
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Muad'Dib
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Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by Muad'Dib » February 22nd, 2011, 10:27 pm

Intake Manifold is done!

Image

Image

Image

Image

Quick question. The coater went over the Manifold Gasket surface. Should i worry about this or leave it alone? I dont want to have any sealing issues.
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Stroker Displacement: 4.6/280ci
Vehicle Year: 1996
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Cherokee
Location: DC

Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by gradon » February 23rd, 2011, 8:59 am

You don't want paint on the mating surface. Use a rag and remover. You also might consider having your machinist check it for flatness(as well as the head's side).

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amcinstaller
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Stroker Displacement: 4.6L
Vehicle Year: 1980
Vehicle Make: AMC
Vehicle Model: Spirit
Location: Red Deer, AB, Can

Re: Muad'Dib projected 4.7L stroker build

Post by amcinstaller » February 23rd, 2011, 9:12 am

yea, id remove that too on the gasket surface. but the rest of it looks pretty freaking spanky! i like it :cheers:
1980 AMC Spirit Restomod in Progress
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SilverXJ wrote:Roller rockers won't help that mess you have created. Nor will God for that matter.

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