Best header option

[sudo chop]

Before I spend $450 on a Borla header, I want to make sure it's my best option.

Where can I read about or even buy an APN header? Is the performance of the Borla or the Gibson or the Banks really that great? I can't find any dyno charts or anything.

I'd appreciate some advice.

Thanks.

[unlimitedrubicon]

I have a Banks with the dual outlet and can say it is a very nice piece. I will not be able to give a fair comparison though as I will be installing it with a fresh stroker...

I coated mine and am looking forward to the fresh engine to test it out with.

[JeepsAreBuilt]

For the APN header.. guys over on Naxja.org seem to like them. I would go over there and read up on what they have to say about them. Also you should be able to find links or where to buy them online. I plan on getting one for my 4.0 rebuild and stroker motor down the road.

[SilverXJ]

I don't think you will see much of a performance difference if any between the after market headers. I have a Thorley and while it is a good header I wouldn't buy one again just because their support is horrible. Everyone has an "attitude" to them.

You might want to check the outlet sizes on the various headers. I think Borla's might be 2.25"

APN is good, as said the guys on NAXJA like them.

[Cheromaniac]

I think Borla's might be 2.25".

It IS, and it comes with a 2.25" downpipe. After I did the stroker build I had the collector cut off and replaced with 3" pipe, and also had a 3" downpipe custom bent (necks down to 2.75" at the bends).

[gradon]

I love my Borla, but if I buy another header in the future, it will be a Clifford and I will run dual pipes down the right side w/ an x pipe.

[sudo chop]

After I did the stroker build I had the collector cut off and replaced with 3" pipe, and also had a 3" downpipe custom bent (necks down to 2.75" at the bends).

This is exactly what I was planning on doing after my build, do you feel like it was a good way to go? Like in retrospect... Would you do it that way again?

It's just that it doesn't seem logical for me to take a 450 dollar header and chop it up and throw away the head pipe.

I think I see some APN headers on ebay under no name, I guess they look pretty good.

I think this one on ebay is APN for instance:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JEEP-WRA ... ccessories

I think for the price, I'm gonna end up with this APN one, and still have a 3" collector put on...

[Cheromaniac]

This is exactly what I was planning on doing after my build, do you feel like it was a good way to go? Like in retrospect... Would you do it that way again?

It's just that it doesn't seem logical for me to take a 450 dollar header and chop it up and throw away the head pipe.

It's not something I'd recommend, but I already had my Borla header for 7 years before I built the stroker so it was easy for me to give it the choppy choppy treatment. It worked out great and it's still the set-up I have today.

[nosigma]

I love my Borla, but if I buy another header in the future, it will be a Clifford and I will run dual pipes down the right side w/ an x pipe.

I ordered a Clifford header and promptly sent it back. I was going to swap out my old long tube dual outlet headers (sealing problems) for a new single outlet. The junction between the exhaust flange and the primaries was horrible. The primaries at the flange were rough, lots of sharp turns, clearly it was hammered to fit and the bends were full of kinks and huge reductions in size at where the primaries bent down from the flange. It was a real piece of junk compared to the old Clifford Research headers I wanted to take off. A muffler shop would have made a nicer piece. I called Clifford to discuss it and they assured me that the tight short side radius was intentional "to increase flow" as was the reduction in cross section area at the bend "to accelerate flow around the corners" . They use to make some great parts. Not any more. They are living on the old mans reputation.

John

[honesT]

My 2cents from a newbie that only has research on his side

From what I have read the best set up is a header that flows from 3 to 2 to 1 like this one http://rustysoffroad.com/mm5/merchant.m ... de=headers

As far as going to a larger than 2.5 diameter pipe it has been stated that all is good with longer pipes to improve exhuasting the spent combustion chamber gasses thus allowing more fresh air into the combustion chamber giving a better explosion, BUT the larger than 2.5 diameter pipes are said to effect the back pressure of the system ( I`m guessing it has something to do with the compression like a vaccum cleaner going to big will only cause a tornato affect instead of a straight flow ) and rob the engine of it`s good gass mileage due to the combustion chamber still being full of gasses from the last explosion...

This is just what I can gather from what I have read, Myself I have decided not to go with a header as my stock manifold is still in good condition and my 96 cherokee is only a stock engine and the only noticable gain I would get is a louder growl... I have up graded my exhuast system to a 2.5 high flow from the bottom of the stock manifold to the tail pipe and this setup will help my engine breath better and improve my gas mileage a little, My next upgrade is a cold air intake and larger throttle body to better improve the clean air flow into the combustion chamber, of course after I has researched the crap out of everything I hate waisting time and money

[sudo chop]

Not really regarding the header since I've already purchased the APN, but more towards the rest of the exhaust:

I know exhaust has been covered, but I'm not sure its really clear to me as to what setup is best, if anything I am now more uncertain, so I'll ask a straightforward question...

Is it going to rob me of torque to run a 3" s pipe from the APN header to a 3" high flow cat, stepped down to a 2.5" flowmaster to 2.5" tail? This is pretty simiar to Dino's I guess. From what I understand it is ok to have this larger diameter tubing in place while the exhaust gas is still hot, especially since I am coating my header with ceramic.

Or, conversely, would it perhaps rob me of higher end 260ish ponies to run 2.5" from the collector all the way back?

Thanks.

[4.whoa]

From what I understand the biggest restrictions are the bend just after the collector and the muffler. The downpipe is obvious but mufflers need to flow enough cfm for your app. Not all mfg's rate them in cfm. I've read that it can be benificial to run a bigger - say 3" - muffler than the pipe - 2 1/2"- as the muffler flows less then same size pipe.

- just 2 more pennies

[JolleyRoger]

I bought a APN (Automotive Parts Network) several years ago. Just your basic, generic header for about $100. After about 7 months it looked like this, could have been my fault but who knows.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/pictur ... tureid=192

I bought a Thorley and it has been fine for the last few years. Though it is certainly not the same color, now.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/pictur ... tureid=193

[unlimitedrubicon]

That photo reminds me why I purchased a new Banks Stainless header and then proceeded to ceramic coat it inside and out. Should be worry free for quite some time...

IMG_0117.JPG

[gradon]

That's the first negative I've heard for the Clifford. One of my co-workers said he has an older single Clifford header in his closet that he used to run on his TJ, so I'll be getting a deal on that soon. The stock Borla cat-back has a muffler with 2.25"in and 2" out; I think a 2.75/3" system necked down to 2.5" would work on a stroker. I'm currently 2.25" into the Magnaflow muffler and 2.5" out.