505 Hydraulic Roller Package

[Randy_66]

I am debating giving one of these a try, probably the Dur220 int / 226 ex/ lift .525int /.525ex grind. When I first looked I was appalled by the price tag. After pricing the components, $160 for the double roller timing set, $225 for springs locks and retainers, $100 for custom pushrods, $40+ for the gaskets the cost of the roller lifters and cam itself is apparently down to $700 ish. While I find that disturbing I figure the cost of redoing the motor several times like SilverXJ is going through makes it look more and more like a bargain if it doesn't self destruct. But it could just make a more expensive grenade. The worst part is he appears to be going about it all a lot less haphazardly than I have gotten by on projects in the past. Has anybody had any SUCCESS lately? All we hear about is the failures, and its scaring me off.

[lafrad]

Hmm... you weren't specific about what was successful...

I have a 4.6 stroker that I listed my build specs on some other threads...

Finished up a Rough Country 4.5" XJ long arm install a few weeks ago, and installed a set of Pro-Comp Mud terrains (31x10.5)... with the STOCK axles and gears (3.55? 3.3x? something in there)... the 4.6 feels decently strong and just returned 22mpg on a long hiway trip to the north woods of wisconsin (650 miles total trip).

Ive now got 5500 miles on the stroker, it uses NO oil and it starts right up every day. I feed it 91+ octane fuel, but for the extra MPG I get from the increased efficiency of compression (10:1 SCR), I have no complaints!

(the valvetrain IS a little bit noisy, but its very "normal" sounding noise)

[bbarrett]

Ive got 3600 miles on mine without any problems, I do run stock valve springs as i have no reason to rev above 4k rpm. I'm running conventional castrol oil 10w30. I also thought about the roller cam but didn't go that route. I believe the ones that has the most problems are running excessive valve spring pressures so they can get more rpm. But as stated i don't need to go higher than 4k, I run out of airflow above this rpm anyway.

[SilverXJ]

Before I went with the Hesco cam last time, I thought hard about the 505 cam. However, I decided against it because: 1) I wasn't really impressed with the grinds, 2) Expensive, 3) limited life time by their own admittance, 4) its not a billet cam, 5) no reports of anyone running it. 505 isn't exactly tops in pre sales support either. I'm glad I didn't because, as you point out, it would have been an even more expensive failure.

As far as failures I believe there are many more running strokers on this site and else where than the handful of failures. I just have the lion share of the failures.

[dwg86]

I've got about 14,000 miles on mine now. Running an Engle flat tappet hydraulic cam, Mopar Performance valve springs, SCR 9.25:1. Runs great, but next stroker will have more compression.

[Randy_66]

Well, by successful I mean the cam NOT being the deciding factor in the premature (under 100,000mi) death of the motor. I may rethink my lift/duration needs and search out the stock coil bind measurements, I know I've seen them posted on the board and run stock springs as mentioned. I like the specs on a couple of the Lunati grinds but suspect they are a bit much for the stock springs.

[scalper]

Im a little confused,are we talking about failure with the 505 roller cam? i have got 2 motors with the 505 roller cams 1 of them has about 15000 miles on it ,the other has 3000 miles. performance is great and mileage is a lot better compared to the flat tappet. i pulled the pan on the 1 with 15000 recently and everything looked fine. i have beat up the internet looking for failures with the 505 roller cam and all i find is basscats cam bearing peeling out and the verdict is not in on the problem of that so we cant blame the cam or lifters on that yet.yes the cam kits are a little pricey but i did get some realy good hardware.Did silverxj have problems with the 505 cam? are was it a flat tappet? i went through 3 flat tappets before i decided 2 go roller, so for im glad i made the chose.

[amcinstaller]

silver has only run flat tappets, i have a few in mind but im not gonna write the list in case im wrong.

[lafrad]

Hmm, reading back over, it looks like there is a few different lines of conversations going.

What *exactly* are your goals.

Remember, everything is a trade-off. Lots of nice sound compromises pure power and good drivability/off roading. Lots of power compromises some nice sound and good driveability. Lots of good driviability cuts down on the other two.

And anything you are looking to max out any one (or try for all three), the price starts going up quickly.

[SilverXJ]

I haven't had a flat tappet cam fail that I installed and broke in. I just have the cam bearings fail... wait... I did have one Comp fail, but I believe I attributed to that.

[Randy_66]

I am debating either the 505 roller or after more looking, the ungodly expensive Schubeck lifters as a means of dodging the cam lobe failures I have been reading about. SilverXJ's repeated cam bearing failures are pretty scary too since by his documentation he definitely appears to be doing everything right. I don't want to do this but once right now. Doing it over several times makes an LS swap look more attractive, but I really don't want to open THAT can of worms.

[dwg86]

If your pockets are deep enough, run the roller. I might if I had the money. If you are going to run a flat tappet make sure your valve spring pressure isn't excessive, use good assembly lube, and a high zinc oil.

[SilverXJ]

Schubeck lifters were $400 last time I checked. You also have to run increased spring pressure. If you loft a lifter or the lifter loses contact with the cam for any reason, the ceramic shatters and it will be sent for a ride around your engine. Good bye engine. Hesco has a hydraulic cam that has EDM holes in the lifters. 310* duration, but the lifters actually bleed down under low rpm and reduce duration, as well as oil the cam. I'm told its sounds like a solid lifter cam. There is also cam nitrideing, and tufftriding, grooved lifter bores, Crower cam savers (modified Johnson lifters). You could always run a oil line shooting lube to the cam lobes.

[Cheromaniac]

Well, by successful I mean the cam NOT being the deciding factor in the premature (under 100,000mi) death of the motor.

My motor's still running strong after 60k miles but I had to replace the cam (Crane 753905) after 34k when one lobe and two lifters bit the dust. I've been running the stock '92 cam with stock valve springs since then and the valvetrain's as quiet as a mouse (knock on wood). It'll run to the 5200rpm rev limiter without valve float. To keep the lifters/cam lobes happy, I use an SL-rated 10W-40 semi-synthetic oil.

[Randy_66]

Those HESCO lifters you are talking about sound like Rhoads lifters, which have been around since at least the 70's. I visited their website a week or so ago and saw they were available with the oiling on the bottom. Back in the about 87 or so they had their own line of cams that came with their lifters, we had good results with one in a Ford F250. It sounded innocent as hell, but from a 30mph roll it was a terror. The reason for needing the roll being 3.31 gears with fairly tall tires, 5000lb truck. Rhoads big claim to fame was bleeding off the duration at low end with big street cams to help make them more driveable, produce greater vacuum, etc. Since then a couple of the larger cam companies have come out with their own versions I think, so HESCO could be getting them anywhere.

At 4 seconds flat.com the Schubeck lifters look like they will be around $500 or so, the V8 apps are all they list. $400 would seem a bargain.

Dino, how does the stock cam with the stroker compare to the Crane you had been running? Also, while I have you on the thread, thanks for posting all the info you have on your websites, I like the way you make use of theory to get things to work, ie the IAT sensor relocate and the trick for the resistor on the engine temp sensor. I think too many people get stuck on having to have packaged solutions instead of figuring the stuff out. I almost envy you being in the UAE, I spent 6 mos in Dubai back in 2001, that place is great!!