4.6 Stroker build..pics included

[seanyb505]

It says EOS in the bottle but I havent opened it yet to see the color. I just ordered the clutch slave/line/master cylinder assembly because no one sells just the line and I couldnt find one in south florida. I JP welded the efan back together so I should be able to start it up in the next couple days or so.

[John]

Switch them the AN3 https://eshop.advanceadapters.com/comme ... inkage.htm and never look back.
John

[seanyb505]

Got the master/slave on and now Im just waiting to prime the oil pump and install the distributor. Should be starting it up sometime this week.

[seanyb505]

One quick question: will the Shell ND 30wt break-in oil combined with some GM EOS be a good combination for the initial start up and cam break-in or should I get some Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs break-in oil? If the Shell stuff is ok, should I dump the entire bottle EOS in?

[John]

I use Rotella T 15W40 and a full bottle of EOS, change it out after breaking the cam in.
John

[seanyb505]

Well I tried to start it today and got nothing. I primed the pump for about 30 seconds, then made sure the harmonic balancer was at 0. I put the distributor cap on the distributor and marked where the 5 o'clock position was (cylinder 1) on the distributor so I would know where the rotor should point to. I got the whole thing in with the rotor pointing toward 5 to 530ish. Upon first turning the key it was cranking way too slowly. I pulled the plugs and cranked it once with none in, then one, then two, and so forth, to try to get oil in the cylinder bores. After that it still didnt fire, so I pulled a plug and checked for spark; it's getting spark. Smelled the exhaust and its getting fuel. Im assuming it's a timing issue now since I know I have air, fuel, and spark. Im going to pulled the valve cover and try to get the engine back to TDC just in case it wasnt there the first time. If that isnt it, Im not sure where to go to next.

[4point6]

Well I tried to start it today and got nothing. I primed the pump for about 30 seconds, then made sure the harmonic balancer was at 0. I put the distributor cap on the distributor and marked where the 5 o'clock position was (cylinder 1) on the distributor so I would know where the rotor should point to. I got the whole thing in with the rotor pointing toward 5 to 530ish. Upon first turning the key it was cranking way too slowly. I pulled the plugs and cranked it once with none in, then one, then two, and so forth, to try to get oil in the cylinder bores. After that it still didnt fire, so I pulled a plug and checked for spark; it's getting spark. Smelled the exhaust and its getting fuel. Im assuming it's a timing issue now since I know I have air, fuel, and spark. Im going to pulled the valve cover and try to get the engine back to TDC just in case it wasnt there the first time. If that isnt it, Im not sure where to go to next.

Had the same problem with mine - had fuel spark, etc. but no start - I was sure I had the dist on correct - but I was 180* out of phase. In case you don't already have the procedure for dist install, here is what I did:

Use your finger over the spark plug hole or a compression gauge to set TDC instead of removing the valve cover - pull the #1 plug, rotate until you feel pressure, then continue to rotate until the vibration damper is at 0*

Once you are there, you can set the rotor using the alignment pin holes in the dist that lock the rotor relative to the housing at cyl #1 firing position during installation. Once the rotor is locked to the housing, set the oil pump so the slot is at 11 o'clock. Then start installing the housing/rotor assembly into the block so the hold down tangs are at 1' o clock. Rotor tang should engage easily with the oil pump slot. Rotate clockwise as the assembly is lowered. The tangs should end up at 3 o'clock with dist fully seated on the block - and line up with the hold down screw. Double check rotor is at 5 o'clock.

[seanyb505]

Thanks, Im going to stick some wire tubing without the wire in the #1 spark plug hole to see where the piston is today. Hopefully it should be at top dead center. It's at 0 now, and the intake valve just closed. As for the distributor, how do you lock it in? I set the oil pump at 11 and 5, put the rotor at little before 5 and turned the rotor without the distributor as it set. The rotor ears went right over the clamp bolt hole and the rotor ended up right where I made the mark for the #1 terminal. Ill try to get pictures as I work today. I wonder if not locking the rotor and distributor is throwing something off, but everything ends up where its supposed to go....

What exactly was installed wrong or different that you were 180* out of phase, distributor or cam?

[4point6]

Thanks, Im going to stick some wire tubing without the wire in the #1 spark plug hole to see where the piston is today. Hopefully it should be at top dead center. It's at 0 now, and the intake valve just closed. As for the distributor, how do you lock it in? I set the oil pump at 11 and 5, put the rotor at little before 5 and turned the rotor without the distributor as it set. The rotor ears went right over the clamp bolt hole and the rotor ended up right where I made the mark for the #1 terminal. Ill try to get pictures as I work today. I wonder if not locking the rotor and distributor is throwing something off, but everything ends up where its supposed to go....

What exactly was installed wrong or different that you were 180* out of phase, distributor or cam?

The camshaft was 180* out relative to the crank - the piston is at TDC two times during the cycle. I had to rotate the crank 360* to get to the other TDC (crank turns twice for every one turn of the camshaft/distributor). Sounds like you are at the wrong TDC? Intake should be closing near BDC, not just before TDC.

There is a hole in the distributor cap, and a couple of holes in the pulse ring assembly. I think just one of those holes lines up with the hole in the cap (IIRC the others are for the 2.5L motor and are further from the center of the circle). From the top of the cap, insert a wire or something down through both holes to keep them locked up. When I did it this way the first time, the tang ended up not quite lined up with hold down screw when fully seated (should have been the first clue it was off). I think I took some pictures when I did it the second time - I'll check when I get home and post if I have any.

[seanyb505]

Ah, see that makes sense. I knew it had to be something like if you cant install it it's not going in correctly, locking the rotor would make that possible. Or at least show that its off. I wasnt able to get to it much today thanks to Fay, so Ill try tomorrow. I did take the #1 plug out and shine a flashlight in there and I thought I could see the piston. I did have to rotate the crank I think 180* after the intake valve closed so I think the crank is in correctly.

[4point6]

I use Rotella T 15W40 and a full bottle of EOS, change it out after breaking the cam in.
John

I used Delo 400 (the older stuff, not LE) with full bottle of EOS for cam break in. Then Rotella T 15W40 with a bottle of EOS for the first 1000 mi or so. Then straight Rotella T for the next change. No idea how this will hold up - only have about 4000 miles so far. Next change (coming up as soon as I get a chance) I want to check the lift of the lobes, and compare with original to see if there is any wear.

[Alex22]

Just remember that Diesel oil isn't made to withstand high rpm's. At higher rpm's it will begin to froth up. It also has extra detergent in it, which will just keep the junk suspended in the oil instead of falling out of suspension in the filter or in the pan when the engine is off. Diesel oil for diesel engines and galoline engine oil for gas engines. You have obviously spent a lot of time and money on this and now you are looking to save a few dollars on the oil. I wouldn't cheap out here.


~Alex

[4point6]

Thanks, Im going to stick some wire tubing without the wire in the #1 spark plug hole to see where the piston is today. Hopefully it should be at top dead center. It's at 0 now, and the intake valve just closed. As for the distributor, how do you lock it in? I set the oil pump at 11 and 5, put the rotor at little before 5 and turned the rotor without the distributor as it set. The rotor ears went right over the clamp bolt hole and the rotor ended up right where I made the mark for the #1 terminal. Ill try to get pictures as I work today. I wonder if not locking the rotor and distributor is throwing something off, but everything ends up where its supposed to go....

What exactly was installed wrong or different that you were 180* out of phase, distributor or cam?

The camshaft was 180* out relative to the crank - the piston is at TDC two times during the cycle. I had to rotate the crank 360* to get to the other TDC (crank turns twice for every one turn of the camshaft/distributor). Sounds like you are at the wrong TDC? Intake should be closing near BDC, not just before TDC.

There is a hole in the distributor cap, and a couple of holes in the pulse ring assembly. I think just one of those holes lines up with the hole in the cap (IIRC the others are for the 2.5L motor and are further from the center of the circle). From the top of the cap, insert a wire or something down through both holes to keep them locked up. When I did it this way the first time, the tang ended up not quite lined up with hold down screw when fully seated (should have been the first clue it was off). I think I took some pictures when I did it the second time - I'll check when I get home and post if I have any.

Ok I was a bit off on the distributor indexing - the hole is in the distributor base. I must be getting old and forgetful...

Anyway here is a pic of the hole in the base, in the bottom of the base (time for a new camera):



Here is a pic from the top, you can see the 2 holes lined up at about 3 o'clock in the photo:



And here is the mini screwdriver thing I used to lock them in place, through the 2 holes:

[Maize583]

I use Rotella T 15W40 and a full bottle of EOS, change it out after breaking the cam in.
John

I used Delo 400 (the older stuff, not LE) with full bottle of EOS for cam break in. Then Rotella T 15W40 with a bottle of EOS for the first 1000 mi or so. Then straight Rotella T for the next change. No idea how this will hold up - only have about 4000 miles so far. Next change (coming up as soon as I get a chance) I want to check the lift of the lobes, and compare with original to see if there is any wear.

Rotella oil doesn't have the Zinc and Maganese it used to, either. It is now below 12ppm. Diesel is fine for using in a Jeep, but the EPA is cutting down on the sodium content in diesel engines as well.

If you want to get an oil that will hold up in a flat tappet cammed motor, you will need to go to an off-road type racing oil. Joe Gibbs oil, is an example, Royal Purple has a high zinc level oil out as well. If you do a search, you will find alternatives.

Without the zinc in the oil, you won't get the glasation effect on the cam lobes, and you will wear them down. Using friction modifiers such as Delco EOS, or Comp Cams break-in lube is fine for breaking in a motor, but the chemical make up of the oil is different.

I am going to use a good racing oil in my stroker build, probably Joe Gibbs racing oil.

Just my $0.02 worth....

[Alex22]

I used Delo 400 (the older stuff, not LE) with full bottle of EOS for cam break in. Then Rotella T 15W40 with a bottle of EOS for the first 1000 mi or so. Then straight Rotella T for the next change. No idea how this will hold up - only have about 4000 miles so far. Next change (coming up as soon as I get a chance) I want to check the lift of the lobes, and compare with original to see if there is any wear.

I am going to use a good racing oil in my stroker build, probably Joe Gibbs racing oil.

Just my $0.02 worth....[/quote]

Joe Gibbs has a newer product out, its called Hot Rod oil. Its basically their XP series but with the right detergents for street use. Its not cheap though. I think its twice the price of the Brad Penn street semi synthetic for street engines. If you are dead set on getting every last HP out of your engine then you should run the Gibbs oil. Its the only stuff we have seen improve horse power (2 to 4 hp).