Need some direction on budget stroker build!

[ngrover]

If someone could point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it!

My goals (I think):
- Build a stroker using as many parts as I already have (see list below) and keeping the cost as close to a stock build as possible. Some exceptions will inevitable apply.
- Run 87 octane (or put another way, I don't want to concern myself with what octane I'm running any more than I do with a stock 4.0. 87 is as low as it gets here)
- Gain low end torque
- Maintain reliability

What I have:
- complete running 1997 XJ 4.0 in good running order. 116,000 miles. Has 0630 head.
- long block 1999 (pre-distributorless) 4.0 that was running smooth but had low oil pressure and 200,000 miles. Has 0630 head.
- complete running 1999 XJ with a 1993 4.0 that I swapped in. Runs perfectly. Has high-flow intake manifold and 7120 head.
- Late model YJ 258 crank and rods. Has short 54mm nose (no mods necessary). I witnessed the engine running smoothly before they were pulled. All in visibly great condition.

Parts I think I want to use (pending feedback):
- 4.0 rods
- 4.2 crank
- IC944 pistons, 0.020 over
- stock cam and rockers from one of my engines (93,97,99 ?)
- new timing set (roller chain ?)
- I'd rather not replace the crank pulley etc if I don't need to
- Not sure about injectors but if stock is not going to work, I'd get something like neon injectors from the junk-yard and recondition them? If I have to spend anything, I'll save a buck where I can!
- I don't want to upgrade things for which there is no consensus of there being any benefit, like say high volume oil pumps? I'll replace the oil pump sure, but I'm not up to clearancing my pan and spending the extra money on a high volume pump if people are debating the benefit.

I guess what I'm asking is: given what I have, what is a cost-effective, optimal way to build a stroker that can run 87 octane? What kinds of machine work (decking etc) might I be considering. I'm not building a race car here. I just happen to have a lot of Jeep "stuff" laying around and I want to put a fresh engine in my project XJ. I've swapped engines, but never built one. My head is kinda spinning with all this talk of cam retainer variations, timing cover differences etc. I'm willing to take apart all three engines and pick the best parts of each if necessary.

Below is my first stab at using the calculator. Did I do a reasonable job? Do those numbers lend themselves to being low-ocate friendly. I'm at 3500 feet.

[honkysXJ]

The numbers look pretty good to me some might debate the quench but everyone seems to have different opinions on that,what .what cam did you run in the calculator? You could also probably sell the 4.2 rods to recoup some $$$ I like the 4.0 kb option myself less machine work better quench! And it seems most have had luck with stock 4.0 cam if in decent shape or get a replacement and not worry about upgrading springs. Neon injectors will be perfect and being you have a 97 you'll want the 703s with new o-rings , new gaskets,bearings,oil pump (standard should be plenty good) and maybe lifters may not sound like much but it will add up ,with the build you listed the pistons and machine work will be the most of it ,your cylinders might at least need honed!
Check out dinos site if you haven't already! Good luck! Also what jeep are you putting it in? Just curious?

[ngrover]

It's going into the 97 XJ. and seeing as you asked (and to make a long story short) ... I bought the thing in 2009. It soon needed a clutch so I took it off the road. I then decided to make it a project ... and then got a job where I needed a car ... so I bought a 99 XJ that came with a spare engine because the one in it was nearing the end of it's life. So I went from a blown clutch in my commuter jeep 4 years ago to where I'm at today.. which is to say, I'm an un-intentional jeep aholic with a pile craigs-list parts accumulating in my garage (including a disassembled 4.2 engine that I bought for $100 ). With three little kids, my time spent in the garage is usually a couple days a week somewhere between 10pm and 2am

It's been a strange and fun adventure getting to where I'm at. When I started, I didn't have a garage to work in... so I built one (never done that before). Then I needed to make some bumpers, rock sliders and do some body work... so I bought a welder (never done that before). Then I needed to paint the thing... so I bought a used 60 gallon compressor and an HVLP spray gun (never done that before). Now I'm planing my engine rebuild (never done that before either, This is where you guys come in ! ) One day (next spring) I might actually drive it!

The beginning:



after few years and a bunch of parts later:



... somewhere along the line I got another job and needed to actually drive again so i bought this for cheap and it came with a spare engine that needed to be swapped in:

my Dad giving me a hand:


... somewhere else along the line I picked up a complete 4.2 engine (the block shown in this picture and the worn 99 4.0 beside it) and a bunch of other "stuff" that came up on the local classifieds.

The 4.2 crank with the original bearings slathered in grease and taped onto the crank for storage


the 97 project is now in the middle of being painted. After that I move on to the engine!


There's where I'm at!

[ngrover]

The numbers look pretty good to me some might debate the quench

I guess I'll need to research more about quench

You could also probably sell the 4.2 rods to recoup some $$$

I'll try doing that. Any body need some 4.2 rods?!

it seems most have had luck with stock 4.0 cam if in decent shape

Is there a preferred year for OEM cam? I have a 93, 97, and 99.... or does it just depend on what block I'm using?

your cylinders might at least need honed!

I just checked and I think the ICON pistons come with a minimum of 0.020 over bore... which means I have to get the block bored no?

Any other thoughts would be appreciated!

[Cheromaniac]

I guess what I'm asking is: given what I have, what is a cost-effective, optimal way to build a stroker that can run 87 octane?

It looks like you're heading for the modified poor man's stroker route.

4.6L "poor man's" stroker

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.0L 6.125" rods
Keith Black UEM-IC944-020 forged pistons (3.895" bore)
9.25:1 CR
Stock 4.0 camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.070" quench height
Accel 24lb/hr injectors or Neon 23lb/hr injectors for '96-'04 engines
245hp @ 4800rpm, 315lbft @ 3000rpm ('96-'04 camshaft)

In your DCR calculator you'll need to enter a chamber size of 57cc, a deck clearance of 0.027", and a gasket thickness of 0.043". If you polish the combustion chambers and piston dishes the engine should run on 87 octane at 3500ft.
I suggest you use your '97 cam not only for the low/medium rpm torque but also because none of the aftermarket timing sets will fit on a '99+ cam.

[ngrover]

Yes it does look like I'm heading towards a modified poor mans.

I've done *some* reading and I've come across mention of "cam walk". I've only seen this mentioned where aftermarket cams have been used. Has it ever happened to anyone using a stock cam? Would I be buying extra piece of mind by using the 99 block and cam with the retaining plate (even though I'd have to run a stock timing set).

I also noticed that the modified poor mans lists a Mopar gasket with a 0.043 thickness. Why is the default on the calculator at 0.051? Also, why a deck clearance of 0.027 instead of the default 0.0215? Are the calculator defaults not right or is it something else (like a requirement of the build, machine work, or a better gasket etc)? Sorry I'm just starting to learn!

I ran the calculator again with your numbers. Look right?

Thanks!

[Cheromaniac]

Would I be buying extra piece of mind by using the 99 block and cam with the retaining plate (even though I'd have to run a stock timing set).

Possibly yes. Would be a good move.

I also noticed that the modified poor mans lists a Mopar gasket with a 0.043 thickness. Why is the default on the calculator at 0.051? Also, why a deck clearance of 0.027 instead of the default 0.0215? Are the calculator defaults not right or is it something else (like a requirement of the build, machine work, or a better gasket etc)? Sorry I'm just starting to learn!

The defaults are set for the stock 4.0L engine so any deviations from the stock spec will need to be taken account in the calculator.

I ran the calculator again with your numbers. Look right?

The compression numbers are low but I guess that's because you entered a 3500ft altitude.

[grainofsalt]

Here is what I run:
1998 4.0 block, not decked (pistons sit at about .020 below)
1998 0630 head decked and light polishing of bowls, no big changes from stock shape.
1986 258 crank
.043 mopar headgasket
KB 944 .040 over
stock sparkplugs
stock 1998 cam
24lb 99-2004 Jeep 4.0 injectors from fuelinjectorconnection
double roller timing chain
melling M81A oil pump
2001 intake

I use the low grade fuel, I am at about 800Ft. No pinging, No loss on MPG. Much more fun!
Total coin including $700 of machine work is about $1500

[ngrover]

Here is what I run:
1998 4.0 block, not decked (pistons sit at about .020 below)
1998 0630 head decked and light polishing of bowls, no big changes from stock shape.
1986 258 crank
.043 mopar headgasket
KB 944 .040 over
stock sparkplugs
stock 1998 cam
24lb 99-2004 Jeep 4.0 injectors from fuelinjectorconnection
double roller timing chain
melling M81A oil pump
2001 intake

I use the low grade fuel, I am at about 800Ft. No pinging, No loss on MPG. Much more fun!
Total coin including $700 of machine work is about $1500

You're setup is what I'm after so it's good to hear that you haven't experienced any pinging. Do you remember how much you had your head decked? Any reason you went with the 99 injectors? Thanks!

[Cheromaniac]

Here is what I run:
1998 4.0 block, not decked (pistons sit at about .020 below)
1998 0630 head decked and light polishing of bowls, no big changes from stock shape.
1986 258 crank
.043 mopar headgasket
KB 944 .040 over
stock sparkplugs
stock 1998 cam
24lb 99-2004 Jeep 4.0 injectors from fuelinjectorconnection
double roller timing chain
melling M81A oil pump
2001 intake

I use the low grade fuel, I am at about 800Ft. No pinging, No loss on MPG. Much more fun!
Total coin including $700 of machine work is about $1500

Yours is a +0.040" overbored modified poor man's stroker.
I'm glad you're happy with it and maybe this will finally silence the doubters who've been critical about this engine combo.

[grainofsalt]

ngrover,
The first shop told me that they had decked it, and when I asked how much they said "Umm about .007 or .008", I had an issue with some not so great bowl grinding and had a different shop do it again. So I don't really know. Probably about .015.

The ebay seller had both connectors, Just ask for the style you need.