Turbo for a stroker

[SilverXJ]

The SAFCII does not handle boost. Not does it have a MAP clamp or anything needed for a boosted application. Its a MAP adjuster with multiple points. It can't do timing either.

[ftpiercecracker1]

an safc are decent for simple setups but are limited, however will work for a basic jeep turbo.

Should of stated my SAFC II comment better lol...safc II for the renix guys is best!
The Aem Fi/C is nice but outdated! Not to say the SAFC isn't either. Us Renix guys don't have that, so the safc II is perfect.For me, a 88 Renix, it'll do its job fine!

So if these guys are wrong what IS needed for a boosted stroker?
lets say 10lbs MAX.

[Dezertxj88]

an safc are decent for simple setups but are limited, however will work for a basic jeep turbo.

Should of stated my SAFC II comment better lol...safc II for the renix guys is best!
The Aem Fi/C is nice but outdated! Not to say the SAFC isn't either. Us Renix guys don't have that, so the safc II is perfect.For me, a 88 Renix, it'll do its job fine!

So if these guys are wrong what IS needed for a boosted stroker?
lets say 10lbs MAX.

I'm not understanding how we are wrong..I think you are misinterapting!
The SAFC II is a fuel controller. AFC = air fuel controller. 10psi? Good luck! You run your boost off a wastegate spring! A 8psi spring will hold 8psi. A 10psi will hold 10psi...simple right? So all you need to do is adjust your fuel trims..view a map adjuster. A map adjuster can be bought for around 50 online..its a simple tool.
The SAFC II is just a glorified map adjuster ad previously stated! It will adjust the fuel trims more precisely, has on screen data ect..It has nothing to do with boost, sorry if I gave that impression! Its souley a AFC.


To turbo your 4.0 safely..this is your parts list!

Turbo kit- turbo, intercooler, piping, BOV & wastegate. You will need to modify you header, or buy the boostwerkz manifold, you will also need to make a downpipe!
You will also need a way to adjust your fuel trims..Map adjuster, SAFC II, HKS AFC..all will control fuel the HKS & SAFC will do it much more precisely than the map adjuster! I would also run a wideband no matter what, its nice to monitor whats going on!
You can run without a intercooler..but you'll have high intake temps..and thats all bad! You should be running a wideband and EGT to monitor whats going on in the motor in real time! You AFR gauge = wideband..will read your AFR. It should be reading around 12.0-12.5..anything higher is lean anything lower is rich! So if your doing a pull on the highway and you see a 13.5 AFR you should obviously get off the throttle...my point of why you should have one! Its real time monitoring..you just have to watch your gauges when your getting on it really. Its very simple concept!
Wideband= air fuel ratio gauge
EGT = exhaust gas temperatures


My comment about the SAFC being perfect for us renix guys, is because the SAFC can monitor knock sensors on the screen in real time...so we can see whats going on in the motor in real time! Its set and go for us..nothing to worry about after. We have a knock sensor while the 91+ guys don't! So its perfect for us..well at least I see it that way! Like I said I'll be running a AFR & EGT gauge to monitor whats going on..its a good idea, and I wouldn't risk a 2000 dollar motor because you were to cheap to spend 300 bucks on gauges to monitor that 2000 dollar motor.


10 psi is quite a bit..turbo tom was running 10psi..although I'm not sure of his numbers, he had a forged motor and blew it up at 10psi! I mean what are you shooting for here honestly? Just to say you have a turbo stroker? Don't think PSI..think of a number you want and go for it..because 10psi on 1 turbo is not the same 10psi on another. They all flow differently.
So give us a idea of how much power you want?


You won't need a map clamp or anything either..many turbo people are running around with turbo 4.0's without one!

[SilverXJ]

SAFC Will do nothing for you in a boosted engine. The PCM will see 0 vac when there is boost and cut fuel. Using the SAFC you will just be trying to add fuel when the engine is trying to pull it 100%. You will be fighting the PCM the whole time and it will be a losing battle.

[ftpiercecracker1]

As you can tell i know next to nothing about the technical side of turbos, i figured 10lbs was a good number since i hear a lot of people running 15 and 20, but if there is even a remote chance of damaging the engine at 10 then i would say 5 would be a more realistic number, 6 at the very max.

and as for the reason of wanting a turbo, well i guess just for the fun of it, the learning experience and why the hell not? I have all the time in the world to build this thing and a performance engine building genius at my disposal, who's a dyno to test everything on once its all said and done. The money will come with time. My goal is to have Everything done, (stroker, turbo, break in period, tuning) by this coming thanksgiving, maybe hallowean.

i know its going to be hard, i know its going to be complicated, but i am confident that between, you guys, Reed performance, and my inexhaustable drive my dream will be realized. I just need your help ( and/or your donations )

just remember, we all had to start somewhere.
thanks guys.

[Dezertxj88]

SAFC Will do nothing for you in a boosted engine. The PCM will see 0 vac when there is boost and cut fuel. Using the SAFC you will just be trying to add fuel when the engine is trying to pull it 100%. You will be fighting the PCM the whole time and it will be a losing battle.

I find it true on the 91+ but not with the older Renix style. We didn't have much to control our Renix jeeps. I always thought the jeeps would have issues though, but I've been running a SAFC II in my 88. So I think us renix guys are ok..87-90 and hence I say the 91+ guys should use the AEM Fi/c, its a better option.
But peppersons been having good luck using just a HKS AFC, so we will see what happens. I know the SAFC II works in my jeep and doesn't fight the ECU...its been in the jeep for about 6months, tuned the 4.0 after I did every bolt on possible. And its just the same now as the day we tuned. Running 13.2-13.6 AFR through out the RPM range under WOT, nothing leaner or richer..
I can't tune for anything under like 45%..or 42%. Either way, anything more than 45% throttle, the SAFC II takes over, under that and it rides like normal..I wish I could tune part throttle but its not biggy.


HKS AFC, ebay turbo kit around 8psi.
http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f46/new-me ... dd-100318/


And ftpiercecracker1, TurboTom found out around 13psi the stock 4.0 blows. He pushed the headgasket out of the head/block and blew a piston up..Which can be seen here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWhaTvfG9I8
Watch the smoke at the end of the video..
Anyway, 6-8psi have been run without issue. Peppersons running 8psi and no intercooler, which I thinks foolish and will eventually lead to a blown motor..You'll make more power per PSI with an intercooler because you'll have a colder intake charge. Theres a red Yj, which can be seen here.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/turb ... er-740036/

He's running a .50trim .63AR I believe around 6psi no intercooler. Torque curves nice and flat, awsome jeep! Theres also a few builds on homemadeturbo.com..jump on there, gotta join to view anything. But theres a turbo 4.0 in a AMC, theres the red YJ and red XJ..quite a few!

[CobraMarty]

I will be installing a supercharger soon and I am going to use a AEM F/IC to control the ignition (boost retard) and a 7th injector but it will also control the stock 6 injectors as well. If you use only the 6 injectors you will need to go with bigger injectors and tune accordingly.

[ftpiercecracker1]

Ok, so lets go over this again, by adding a turbo you increase the amount of air going into the engine, therefore you also need increase the amount of fuel. Sooo, I need a device that can monitor the amount of air coming into my engine and adjust fuel delivery accordingly. Why cant the stock system accomplish this and why wont an SAFC system do this, since all it is, is a glorified air/fuel ratio caluclator?

I've heard some people say no it (SAFC) wont work, and others say yes it will. I would appreciate some closure here. This is a 90 model, RENIX system.

thanks.

and to those people who say an SAFC system WON'T work for a boosted RENIX jeep, please suggest another option.

thanks again.

[jeepman]

I have Made a Eaton M90 (Ford Style) To adapt to an 05 Jeep TJ Rubicon and at the time NO intercooler (there are plans to intercool it just not on the origonal install) and it worked great amd is fairly easy to install...

The Odds are that the White Jeep you spoke of that was revving up to loud was a few air leaks in the system and or somethinf was wrong...

In My installation I made a New Mount for the Supercharger above the intake manifold and added larger injectors and an additional Fuel pump and regulator (vac controlled)and added a boost gauge and a AFR guage and STOCK PCM...

I will be building another one for my current 4.7L Stroker i am building right now which will be supercharged by the same Eaton M90...

[ftpiercecracker1]

thanks for the post.


Ok, so lets go over this again, by adding a turbo you increase the amount of air going into the engine, therefore you also need increase the amount of fuel. Sooo, I need a device that can monitor the amount of air coming into my engine and adjust fuel delivery accordingly. Why cant the stock system accomplish this and why wont an SAFC system do this, since all it is, is a glorified air/fuel ratio caluclator?

I've heard some people say no it (SAFC) wont work, and others say yes it will. I would appreciate some closure here. This is a 90 model, RENIX system.

thanks.

and to those people who say an SAFC system WON'T work for a boosted RENIX jeep, please suggest another option.

thanks again.

[SilverXJ]

Why cant the stock system accomplish this and why wont an SAFC system do this, since all it is, is a glorified air/fuel ratio caluclator?

The stock MAP sensor can not read boost. Even if it could the PCM would have no idea how to interpret it. Any time the MAP sensor sees boost the PCM will think there is no manifold vacuum and add fuel like it is WOT.

[ftpiercecracker1]

The stock MAP sensor can not read boost. Even if it could the PCM would have no idea how to interpret it. Any time the MAP sensor sees boost the PCM will think there is no manifold vacuum and add fuel like it is WOT.

so, you need a map votage adjuster and an addition/piggy back onto the pcm that can read the signals and add the proper amount of fuel when needed, ie under boost conditions.
question 1.
Can the SAFC system do this?
question 2.
If not what can?
question 3.
Can i make something? (I have on my desktop, right now, a direct link to a guide on how to make an adjustable MAP sensor.)

[CobraMarty]

A: AEM F/IC.

[Dezertxj88]

Well I can't personally explain what happens, how it happens, ect.
But the SAFC II has been working on my stock 4.0..it was tuned and that "tune" hasn't changed. If the PCM was adapting on the Renix then it would adapt and subtract or add fuel accordingly..as said my tune was set to go no richer than 13.2-13.6. If the ECU was adjusting why hasn't this changed?
I am monitoring with a AEM uego.
A: The RENIX ECU isn't adapting! So the SAFC II is useful! Around 45% throttle the SAFC II takes over and the tune that was set, is set and thats that! Under 45% throttle the normal ECU is controling the jeep. I know the basics, but couldn't go into detail of how it works or anything.

Its been controlling my jeep 4.0 just fine! We will see if it works with boost..idk if it will or won't! But it works wonders on my jeep 4.0.


My question, how would a adjustable map sensor offline be any different from a SAFC II. The SAFC II adjust the map voltage lol, its just alot nicer & has more options, and is more precise at adjusting fuel!

[amcinstaller]

megasquirt works with a turbo. look at the flogging the wee wee thread. turbo 4.0 (not stroker) build thread