Harmonic Balancer ISSUE!!

[Black00Sahara]

I think the Engine Shop forgot to do the machining on the snout and / or used the wrong Timing set, now they are back peddling and trying to have me "rig" up a fix for it. None of what they have told me is working.

They used a 1987 4.2 Crank in my 2000 Block. When reassembling everything, the pullies were off from the harmonic balancer???

I tried my original 2000 balancer, didn't work. Allignment of pullies was off by 3/8ths of an inch. Balancer stuck out 3/8ths.

So, I called them and they said find a balancer from an 87, so I did... Didn't work, still same issue. The belt ribbs on the balancer were off 3/8ths of an inch.

I called around and one of the engine shops told me to try to put a 3/8ths inch washer in and crank it down and push the balancer in, leave the washer and put the bolt (with the original washer) over that. I tried it and the timing cover has a 1/2inch "ledge" on it that won't allow the balancer to be pushed back, and I pushed a screwdriver back into the hole and the crank doesn't have much room (maybe 1/2 inch from the opening) back in there before the balancer hits metal and won't go in any farther.

I am about at my witts end.

Someone please help me with this issue.

[Black00Sahara]

Sorry for the repost, something appears to be wrong with forum. I just get errors when trying to post.

[GoMopar440]

If you check in the FAQ section of this forum, you'll find the detailed info you need in there. But to sum it up, it's a commonly known issue with the stroker conversions. Most 4.2 cranks were either a 12 counterweight or 4 counterweight design with a 64mm snout for the harmonic ballancer with a V belt pully configuration. In the very late 80's and early 90. The snout was shortened to 54mm and the pully system was switched to a serpentiene (sp?) belt.

There's a few possible solutions for you:

- If you paid to have the stroker crank snout machined, stick to your guns and have the shop do the job correctly. Even more so if you also paid them to assemble the engine for you.
or
- Take an old 4.2 harmonic balancer and cut it down to 10mm wide to use as spacer. Place the spacer in front of your existing harmonic balancer and use it to push the balancer the proper distance onto the crank. This may require you to loosen the timing gear cover if they torqued it down slightly out of line with the centerline of the crank.
or
- Use a stack of thick washers that add up to 10mm as your spacer. Be sure to cut or file a notch on the inside diameter to clear the woodruf key that aligns the harmonic balancer.
or
- Buy one of the ready made spacers from Hesco and use that.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

EDIT: Because I aparently don't know the diference between a CM and a MM.

[604rail_king]

pretty sure GoMopar440 meant to say 64MM and 54MM... not CM.

but he is correct in your options.

[GoMopar440]

Oops... Please pardon my typos. I've been working off of waaay to little sleep lately.

I'll edit the other post above to avoid any confusion. Good catch Rail King.

[Black00Sahara]

Thanks for the replies. I looked through the forum posts and found a great deal of information

I did pay to have all the necessary parts machined, I believe they messed up and now that I have it all in and back together, they don't want to take the "shop time" to pull the engine and do it again.

I think they would probably rather machine the balancer for me than pull the entire engine out. This seems like a better option for me also, as long as they get it right.

[Muad'Dib]

Sorry for the repost, something appears to be wrong with forum. I just get errors when trying to post.

If you are experiencing issues with the forum, please inform me of the errors that you encounter. Thanks!

[doublins]

Thanks for the replies. I looked through the forum posts and found a great deal of information

I did pay to have all the necessary parts machined, I believe they messed up and now that I have it all in and back together, they don't want to take the "shop time" to pull the engine and do it again.

I think they would probably rather machine the balancer for me than pull the entire engine out. This seems like a better option for me also, as long as they get it right.

On the basis of picking a legitimate and common-sense solution, it does not make sense to pull an engine and disassemble due to the crank snout being too long, especially given the fact that there are several painless options available to you. In the interest of fairness, I would ask that the shop purchase a ready-made spacer for you. Expecting them to extract and disassemble the engine to machine the snout is a non-starter, in my opinion.

-Chris

[woodjeep]

Your issue is probably not as bad as you think. The important dimensions of all the cranks are the same, the only difference is the snout length...the snout is the part that sticks out PAST the pulley. The harmonic balancer is a interference fit...that means it must be driven on until it bottoms...you just cant slide it on. If the snout is the longer model...64mm, the pulley will stop moving inward when the bolt and washer bottom out against it ( the face of the snout). You will need to buy or manufacture a spacer 10-12 mm thick. This spacer is used to keep the pulley from walking fwd on the longer snouts but is also used to drive the pulley against the crank gear and oil sling washer...not there on your model. Look at the picture I posted...it tough to get a good angle but the back lip of your balancer should be past the front edge of the timing marks..thats fully seated. You can make a TEMPORARY ( not runable for more than 5 min) by cutting a piece of pvc pipe 1/2 inch thick from a piece of 1 1/4 pipe. Make the cuts as square as possible. and you might need some oversized thick fender washers with a 1/2 inch centerhole. The balancer pulley bolt is a grade 8 or higher 1/2 fine thread. I'm guessing on the pipe dia because I can't remember exactly what size I used but you should be able to figure it out. The spacer must slide freely over the snout but you don't want to too big or it will wobble. Cut the pipe a little thicker than 1/2 because it will squish a bit where your final metal one wont. Get your current bolt, put some oversized washers on it after your current thick balancer washer. It should be bolt head-stock pulley washer then one or 2 oversized washers ..then pvc spacer. ...center your pvc pipe on the snout and start tightening..the pvc spacer will (should) drive the pulley full onto the crank and your belt should align. Once the pulley is seated then install your permanent spacer.

[GoMopar440]

Here's a thought that popped up in my head when reading some of the other replies here. Do NOT hammer on the balancer in order to get to go farther onto the crank. First thing I'd do is check for smooth thread engagement between the bolt (recommend a new grade 8) and snout first and make sure the bolt starts into the crank threads at least 1/2" before starting to compress the spacer against the balancer. Then tighten the bolt (don't forget the thick washer) to pull it to the proper depth. A too tight or rough engaging set of threads will make it a lot harder to get a feel for how well it is drawing the balancer on.

You may not even have room to swing a hammer in there, so it may be a moot point. Just throwing that out there so you don't inadvertantly compound the problem by bending the snout or denting/deforming the thrust surfaces of your crank bearings. Hope this helps.