Another Injector Question

[New Stroker]

Ok, I've read and have been doing searches but I'm a little confused. I'm building a 4.6 and have been looking into injectors. I found this info here http://www.scribd.com/doc/63315218/50/A ... ce-DOHC-V8
and thought the 3.7 Chrysler injectors would work good. So I got a set out of a 3.7 liberty but they have different numbers on them. The page says they should be 289.S35.508/3. These have a 0.280.158.020 on them. Does anyone know if they used 2 or maybe more different injectors on the 3.7 or is that data wrong? From what I can find, the 0.280.158.020 injectors only flow 20lb/h vs the 24 that is shown for 3.7 engines. Thanks.

[604rail_king]

http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280158020.jpg

[New Stroker]

Thanks for the reply. That is where I found the flow rate of the injectors I have. My question was more of Did Chrysler use more than 1 injector in the 3.7 because a few sites show the b.289.s35.508.3 as the 3.7 injector which they say flows 24lb/hr yet mine are 0.280.158.020 20lb/hr. 20lb/hr at 43.5 won't be enough at 49. 21.2lb/hr from my calculations. That is lower than the stock injectors.

[New Stroker]

I found some bosch 4L8E-A4A injectors. They are supposed to be 24lb/hr which should work out good for me. Thanks again.

[SilverXJ]

They aren't. They will flow like 27# on the 49psi rail. They are more like 25.4# @ 43.5PSI.

[Retlaw01XJ]

What do the stock 04854181 injectors flow?
....I see one site (witchhunter) showing 22.5 lb @49 psi
and another site showing 25 lb at 43.5 psi ! http://injector-rehab.com/shop/Flow_Rates.html ....that's gotta be wrong.
Tough to find consistent flow ratings. Wonder if I can test them myself.

The often-recommended Neon injector, 4669938 has been rated at 21.3 lb @43.5 psi, which converts to 22.6 lb @ 49 psi.
I just picked up some Ford 4L3E-B4C that are supposedly a match to the Neon injectors. $40 for a set of 8.

To answer the original question about applications, best bet is to check a Chrysler parts catalog. Or try a site like Rockauto.com and compare different years of Liberties.

[SilverXJ]

What do the stock 04854181 injectors flow?
....I see one site (witchhunter) showing 22.5 lb @49 psi

This matches the numbers i have found.

and another site showing 25 lb at 43.5 psi ! http://injector-rehab.com/shop/Flow_Rates.html ....that's gotta be wrong.

Definetly wrong.

The often-recommended Neon injector, 4669938 has been rated at 21.3 lb @43.5 psi, which converts to 22.6 lb @ 49 psi.

That is what I am running now, but those numbers are incorrect as it would match stock. What I have is 0-280-155-784/4669938(4 hole ev6), 238cc/22.6# @43.5psi & 252.6cc/24lb @49psi. I'm thinking they are more like 25lbs @49psi as the 49PSI number is calculated. They run a bit rich up top, but are the closest match I have found yet. They are also close to the Jeep 4.7L 53032704AB.

I just picked up some Ford 4L3E-B4C that are supposedly a match to the Neon injectors. $40 for a set of 8.

What I have found is that they flow 21.33# @ 43.5psi.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/63315218/69/D ... A7B-CM5023#
http://www.surplustraders.net/specs/yb464.php

To answer the original question about applications, best bet is to check a Chrysler parts catalog. Or try a site like Rockauto.com and compare different years of Liberties.

That should get you some part numbers then you can go form there. Rockauto is very good for comparing part numbers.

[New Stroker]

They aren't. They will flow like 27# on the 49psi rail. They are more like 25.4# @ 43.5PSI.

Glad I decided to check this thread..I was just about to pull the trigger on the buy it now option of those injectors. Might be a silly question but could I change the Pressure regulator to the earlier 43.5psi? Then they would be ideal. I see the regulator comes apart. Is there just a different spring in the diaphragm that affects pressure? Anyone tried it? Thanks again.

[New Stroker]

The often-recommended Neon injector, 4669938 has been rated at 21.3 lb @43.5 psi, which converts to 22.6 lb @ 49 psi.

That is what I am running now, but those numbers are incorrect as it would match stock. What I have is 0-280-155-784/4669938(4 hole ev6), 238cc/22.6# @43.5psi & 252.6cc/24lb @49psi. I'm thinking they are more like 25lbs @49psi as the 49PSI number is calculated. They run a bit rich up top, but are the closest match I have found yet. They are also close to the Jeep 4.7L 53032704AB.

Thanks for the info. I guess I'm using some bad information. You say 25lbs is a little rich on top but according to injector calculators I've found, I should be using 25-26lb injectors. This stuff is mind boggling. LOL It would be nice if there was some more accurate information around. Witch Hunter is what I try to go by since they have flowed the injectors they have listed. Although I'm sure said injectors would show different results on someone else's equipment.

I just picked up some Ford 4L3E-B4C that are supposedly a match to the Neon injectors. $40 for a set of 8.

What I have found is that they flow 21.33# @ 43.5psi.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/63315218/69/D ... A7B-CM5023#
http://www.surplustraders.net/specs/yb464.php

To answer the original question about applications, best bet is to check a Chrysler parts catalog. Or try a site like Rockauto.com and compare different years of Liberties.

That should get you some part numbers then you can go form there. Rockauto is very good for comparing part numbers.[/quote]
Thanks for everyone's replies. Maybe by time I get this motor built I'll have my injector dilemma figured out.

[New Stroker]

Ok, how about the Dodge 0 280 155 934 injectors? Seems like they work good for a number of people. They would flow 23.24 according to Witch Hunter. A little more than stock. Guess I should clue you in to what I'm building. 4.6 using a 2000 4.0 Block, Head, Intake and exhaust. Mild head work done. 8.8:1 CR. Comp suggested a 68-232-4 Cam. Still undecided on that yet. Just looking for low to mid range grunt so my Jeep doesn't struggle with pulling my trailer. I can get a set of the Dodge injectors reasonably right now too.

[SilverXJ]

Thanks for the info. I guess I'm using some bad information. You say 25lbs is a little rich on top but according to injector calculators I've found, I should be using 25-26lb injectors. This stuff is mind boggling. LOL It would be nice if there was some more accurate information around. Witch Hunter is what I try to go by since they have flowed the injectors they have listed. Although I'm sure said injectors would show different results on someone else's equipment.

Yes, it is a bit confusing. I can't count how many hours I have spent researching injector data and comparing figures. Witch Hunter is a good resource and they have pretty accurate information. And I don't know what kind of assumptions the calcs make, or if the BSFC is different for our engines. They usually recommend something like a 27# injector, which is too large. And most people recommend a 24# injector.

Ok, how about the Dodge 0 280 155 934 injectors? Seems like they work good for a number of people. They would flow 23.24 according to Witch Hunter. A little more than stock.

That is an interesting choice. Keep in mind that the stock injectors flow 21.4# @43.5PSI and 22.5# @49psi. I don't see where you are getting the 23.24# from WitchHunter. I found the number on their flow rating page, and it takes me to this: http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155934.jpg, but the number in the image doesn't match the linked number. So, IDK. If the number in the pic is correct they should flow around 24.6# @49psi. Might be a good fit. Could be interesting.

Will you be using a wideband?

[New Stroker]

Yes, it is a bit confusing. I can't count how many hours I have spent researching injector data and comparing figures. Witch Hunter is a good resource and they have pretty accurate information. And I don't know what kind of assumptions the calcs make, or if the BSFC is different for our engines. They usually recommend something like a 27# injector, which is too large. And most people recommend a 24# injector.

Ok, how about the Dodge 0 280 155 934 injectors? Seems like they work good for a number of people. They would flow 23.24 according to Witch Hunter. A little more than stock.

That is an interesting choice. Keep in mind that the stock injectors flow 21.4# @43.5PSI and 22.5# @49psi. I don't see where you are getting the 23.24# from WitchHunter. I found the number on their flow rating page, and it takes me to this: http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155934.jpg, but the number in the image doesn't match the linked number. So, IDK. If the number in the pic is correct they should flow around 24.6# @49psi. Might be a good fit. Could be interesting.

Will you be using a wideband?[/quote]

I was figuring 24-25lb injector at 49psi. I didn't catch the number being different in the pic. The injector looks right though as far as color and design. Wonder if it was a typo. Don't think they make a 0280144934 injector. Atleast I can't find one. The Stock Jeep 4.0 injector flows are close to your numbers according to WitchHunter's calculators. The Dodge 0280155934 injectors are supposed to flow 23.24lbs/hr at 49psi.. http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4
24.6 would make me happier though. Not sure on a wideband. It's one of those things that if I need it, I'll use it. If not, no.

[Retlaw01XJ]

I have 0-280-155-784/4669938,
238cc/22.6# @43.5psi & 252.6cc/24lb @49psi. I'm thinking they are more like 25lbs @49psi as the 49PSI number is calculated.
They run a bit rich up top.

http://www.surplustraders.net/specs/yb464.php

Thanks for that link....haven't seen that one yet. Wish I could find more specs in a manufacturer's catalog, no luck so far.

Your injectors aren't too rich.... you just need to get more air into that engine!
I'm pondering how much changing the air flow in/out of the engine affects the mixture. Fuel delivery is set (at WOT/open loop), but changing air filter setups and exhaust components more directly affects airflow.
Can 'air' adjustments be made to fine tune a system? For example, changing from a stock air cleaner to a ram-air fed hi-flow filter setup would produce different 'air' values for the A/F ratio, without changing the amount of fuel delivered.
I'll eventually be testing some theories myself, but have to get the engine running first!

The sweet spot for our injectors appears to be in the 225-240 cc/min range (@43.5 psi), depending on other mods.

[SilverXJ]

Your injectors aren't too rich.... you just need to get more air into that engine!
I'm pondering how much changing the air flow in/out of the engine affects the mixture. Fuel delivery is set (at WOT/open loop), but changing air filter setups and exhaust components more directly affects airflow.

Not much. Take a stock 4.0L and throw on all the external bolt ons and the stock injectors are still good and it will stil run rich in WOT

Can 'air' adjustments be made to fine tune a system? For example, changing from a stock air cleaner to a ram-air fed hi-flow filter setup would produce different 'air' values for the A/F ratio, without changing the amount of fuel delivered.

Ram air is a myth on road vehicles. More and colder air helps, but won't change teh AFR much as the PCM will correct
I'll eventually be testing some theories myself, but have to get the engine running first!

The sweet spot for our injectors appears to be in the 225-240 cc/min range (@43.5 psi), depending on other mods.

225cc is stock on the 98+. 240 should be good for a stroker, if not a touch smaller