how to tune?

[bikedude189]

so, got the stroker in and running, but i think it's running pretty rich. has 24# ford injectors and stock computer, fpr, map, etc.

what is an easy way (have little money) to tell how it's running? i know you can hook a meter up to the O2 sensor, but how exactly?

how can i set the distributor timing accurately? it's set at tdc, and stock tang location, i clipped one tang off since i know some people had to on their comp cams, but i ended up running it with the remaining tab against the bolt and it seems to run fine, if i rotate it enough the other way it will cut out. not sure exactly how i can set this, do i need to use a timing light and get the spark at tdc?

any way to change the afr before wot? i'm planning an adjustable map for more than 80% throttle, but is there anything i can do to adjust the AFR before wot?

[bikedude189]

come on, guys who knows?

[SilverXJ]

Start with doing research. I can tell you haven't because you don't know that the distributor doesn't adjust the timing.

[bikedude189]

let me guess, you read Pirate a lot don't you? well, don't be an asshole. i didn't ask the question because i could easily look it up on my own. if you want to just flame people, then don't post.

the dist adjusts when the cam position sensor picks up a signal which in turn will adjust the timing.

i have tried to research, but all i have read says to get an aftermarket programmer and have it tuned to the cost of $800+

i'm not looking to spend 1/3 the cost of the whole build on a computer system that replaces what already seems to work quite well.

[lafrad]

The distributor does NOT adjust ANY timing. the sensor in the distributor only relays what part of the firing order the computer should be on. ALL timing events come from the Crankshaft position sensor. The engine "cuts out" or "runs rough" only when you get to the point where it is indexed too far for the spark to jump to the proper spark terminal... OR the distributor timing event is past well know references in the crankshaft timing.

That means spark is, more or less, fixed. there isn't any way to change it without flashing the computer, or using a piggyback/ECU replacement.

For air/fuel tuning, Map adjusters worth rather well. There are complex ones from Split Second, or there are just plain voltage adjustments that you can make with a few parts from radio shack.

[SilverXJ]

let me guess, you read Pirate a lot don't you? well, don't be an asshole.

We aren't here to serve you up answers on a silver platter. Research then post questions. There is a search function on this forum and tuning has been covered several times.

if you want to just flame people, then don't post.

If you don't research then don't post.

the dist adjusts when the cam position sensor picks up a signal which in turn will adjust the timing.

Once again you are wrong. The distributor does not adjust timing.

i have tried to research, but all i have read says to get an aftermarket programmer and have it tuned to the cost of $800+

obviously you haven't.

http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... hilit=tune
http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... hilit=tune

Keep up the attitude.

[bikedude189]

wow, sweet threads there. one for a unichip (big $$$) and one for the Apexi (also $$$$)

the search function apparently doesn't work or it HASN'T been covered, because when i searched for tuning, all the threads either said pay big bucks to get a unichip and have it tuned, or have hesco do it, or leave the stock pcm alone, maybe with an adjustable map sensor.

so then, what exactly does turning the distributor do? obviously it does something, because the engine wont run if you turn it past a certain point.

and if boards like this aren't here to help people, then what? just a place to show how big your *motor* is? sounds like you'd rather piss off someone then tell them an answer you clearly think you know. if you don't like my attitude toward your posts THEN DON'T POST!

[03GC]

Kind of off topic, but the problem with most car/jeep /offroad boards is that about every 6 months the same questions come back. Look at pro-touring.com or pirate. There have been so many repeat threads started on those sites because the search function doesn't work, or peoples questions are not answered to their satisfaction on the threads that come up.

Long time users of forums get tired of the same questions coming back. Just the way it is on every automotive forum I have looked at.

Back to your question, the only real way to know what your engine is doing is with a wide band o2 ,chassis dyno, or some strong kung-fu reading plugs and tailpipes. I am going after the wideband on my stroker ,see where I am at, then determine what is the next move (adj map ,adj FPR, Split Second ,UniChip, or whatever black magic voodoo I can come up with).

Figure out what your engine really needs, then go after it. Might not need anything.

Everyone needs to remember we are not curing cancer here. Its just a stupid Jeep engine.

Paul

[SilverXJ]

Expect to spend any where between $300- $400 for a tuner. About the same for a data logging wideband. You can get a cheap O2 gauge that will plug into your stock O2 sensor. It might get you close, but it won't tell you your exact AFR. You will know rich or lean. You might need larger injectors (most likely you will) and you can make a map adjuster yourself.

You don't want to spend money on tuning then don't do it. Your engine might last or it might not. Run it rich with too larger injectors and you wash the cylinder walls. Run it lean on stock injectors and you will burn valves.

if you don't like my attitude toward your posts THEN DON'T POST!

You need to take your own advice on that.

[Bodo]

wow, sweet threads there. one for a unichip (big $$$) and one for the Apexi (also $$$$)
--
so then, what exactly does turning the distributor do? obviously it does something, because the engine wont run if you turn it past a certain point.

Any tuner is going to be pricey. What do you want? Something free?
Want cheap? look up mega squirt.

Re: the distributor, turning it does nothing. If you ask a question, the answer is correct and you don't like it you have a problem

[nukfyrsq]

After spending nearly a year researching (which filled a 3” ring binder with hardcopy plus several meg of flash drive space) this site being my primary, I began my build which took nearly another year due to work schedule. I FULLY understand your frustration when posting questions. Sometimes a little respect both ways and a little better guidance from the resident experts would go a long way to increase involvement and membership. You don't know what you don't know. Enough on manners and etiquette.
If you don’t have one I would strongly recommend a FSM (Factory Service Manual). When I completed my build I indexed my distributor to TDC per the FSM. I’m using a Comp Cam with 3 degrees of advance in the factory grind. It spit and sputtered initially. Even though I knew by that time rotating the dizzy had no affect on timing I still had to try, old school, and as you have learned to no avail. I referenced my notes and followed the directions provided by Dino Savva for indexing the dizzy. Fired on the first roll!
I bored .40 over, DIY P&P, shaved .30 of the block, .10 off the head, increased dish on pistons to 22cc and weight matched, rotating assembly balanced, bored TB to 62mm, K&N cold air, SS header, basically stock exhaust, Alum. Radiator w/elec. Fan and 160 degree thermo, STOCK 19# injectors (have 24# and 29# on hand), can’t remember what spark plug I’m running at the moment, along with some other enhancements that would have no affect on timing, air of fuel. Monitoring; with a wide band A/F where the exhaust pipe crosses in front of the oil pan, Fuel pressure, Oil temp and Exhaust temp – thermo coupler in the final collector on the header.
Running the stock computer in stock configuration. I purchased a used AEM piggy back computer for ~$300 ($400+ new). AEM has wiring harnesses that are vehicle specific to allow counter top splicing – poor man’s plug and play. This is for future mods and tweaking when the time comes.
Normal driving at various highway speeds and steady throttle at sea level and ambient temp ~60F; WB A/F 14.3, Fuel 35psi, Oil temp 150, Exhaust temp 1300, Oil press 50-60, Coolant temp 150-180.
Chassis dyno indicated 220ft/lbs and 170hp. WB A/F matched the dyno readings. Spent ~$200 on the WB A/F and $75 on the dyno for 3 pulls.

[gradon]

When I tuned the psc1-002, I got the rpm from the cam sensor and used the built-in 2-bar map from the 002 and used the output to feed the stock maps output wire. I have a Innovate Motorsports LM-2 which is a handheld wideband o2 meter, obd2 scanner, and data logger. I plugged into the obd2 port and monitored the long-term and short term fuel trims. +% numbers meant the computer was adding fuel, -% numbers meant the computer was pulling fuel. Mine was adding fuel with the [email protected]# on the 49psi rail. I go into the psc1 software and have 200 cells based off map pressures vs rpm, with current pressure and rpm cell highlighted. I can input -25 to +25.5. I increase value in cells until the fuel trims are zero(requires multiple yanking of the pcm's relay to reset fuel trims). Drive around, repeat, drive around, repeat, etc. Now for open loop. I want afrs to be 12.5:1(best power in NA engines) at WOT. I do multiple full throttle blasts until I have those afrs(25.5 was still not making 5th gear WOT drop to 12.5 fast enough). Now for closed loop to open loop transition. Use a couple cell widths to decrease the 14.7:1 as pressures rise. Now what happens when you let off the gas at full throttle and push in the clutch? You want the rpms to drop, but not drop out--add fuel as necessary. Very tedious process that helps greatly with a person beside you with a laptop. If you want simple, buy and install a wideband, make and install an adjustable map, get WOT down to 12.5:1.

[jbxx]

If you don’t have one I would strongly recommend a FSM (Factory Service Manual). When I completed my build I indexed my distributor to TDC per the FSM. I’m using a Comp Cam with 3 degrees of advance in the factory grind. It spit and sputtered initially. Even though I knew by that time rotating the dizzy had no affect on timing I still had to try, old school, and as you have learned to no avail. I referenced my notes and followed the directions provided by Dino Savva for indexing the dizzy. Fired on the first roll!

What was the difference between the FSM and Dino's methods for indexing the distributor?
J.B.

[nukfyrsq]

I may have just been off by a tooth, but when I set the distributor in place by how I read the FSM the rotor button was just before the #1 cap contact. I actually measured the 3cm that Dino referenced, placed my rotor button at the mark, aligned the hold down tab with block and slowly rotated the rotor counterclockwise until the distributor gear meshed with the cam gear and dropped it in place which brought the rotor clockwise back to the 3cm reference mark.