CC 68-231-4 and Fuel Injection

[George Dickel]

I searched alot of threads but did not find this specific, yet simple question asked: Has anyone had any issues running this cam with fuel injection? I notice that Comp Cams "does not recommend for fuel injection" but it appears that many run it.

[Cheromaniac]

Many have indeed run that cam with no issues. It's a good choice of cam for a stroker.

[George Dickel]

Many have indeed run that cam with no issues. It's a good choice of cam for a stroker.

I too am running it and love it. After roughly 2000 miles though, I'm having some ignition issues that really have me stumped. I am going thru the process of elimination and looking at anything/everything. Comp will tell you all sorts of interesting reasons why not to run it but my machinist thinks it is a great choice. I did not "degree" the cam when I built the motor and wondered if that could lead to any ignition issues. Again, the machinist does not think so.

When I originally fired it up the first time, I can not tell you how many times I had to index & screw with the distributor. Once I got it running, I was very pleased but always had the P1391 code present. It continued to run fine so I ignored it. Two weeks ago, it began bucking badly under load. I removed the distributor to inspect it for any issues (thinking there might be a gear or shaft problem) and can't get it to start again. I will say that when I removed the distributor cap, there was evidence of fouling on most of the contacts. Yeah, I know, I should have done that first! Anyway, I'm going mad trying to get it to fire up again. There are no codes, there is spark, and everything is new. Now, I guess I should start chasing sensors.

Huh, I hijacked my own thread...

[YJason]

I also have that cam in my stroker and have 0 issues and doesn't throws codes. I have roughly 2500 miles on it so far and use it as my DD.

[John]

That cam is in one motor here, no problems or codes from it for two years. Start with the basics. you might remove the valve cover find top dead center #1 cyl. Both valves closed. Does the harmonic balancer line up at "0" degrees? Index your dizzy properly, and try it again.
A little more basic info about the motor and computer might help.
John

[SilverXJ]

I ran the 231 several times in two different strokers. Never a problem until the last one died then I started to get a weird hesitation off idle and stalling. But it was dying.

[TurboTom]

Why do you guy's mess with the stock FI ?
I bet you are leaving 25HP on the table.

[gradon]

Tis true Tom. Now that I have my M3, I can invest in getting the Unichip tuned. So far three "Unichip Custom Tuners" have basically ignored/turned me down cause I don't have a Porsche(Turbo Performance), a Nissan/Infiniti(Altered Atmosphere), or some other import(Agile Automotive Performance). I don't understand how someone could be a Unichip guru and not want to get easy tuning money(they charge $125-175/hr for dyno tuning) and be able to claim that they tuned 25-50hp out of a Jeep(that is faster than them stock 350s/g35s already, btw).

[George Dickel]

That cam is in one motor here, no problems or codes from it for two years. Start with the basics. you might remove the valve cover find top dead center #1 cyl. Both valves closed. Does the harmonic balancer line up at "0" degrees? Index your dizzy properly, and try it again.
A little more basic info about the motor and computer might help.
John

I can properly index a dizzy in my sleep thanks to this motor. I've taken a few days off from screwing with it and will attack it again in the next day or two. The PCM was replaced when this motor was built along with EVERYTHING else. It is stock with the latest OEM updates.
As for the motor, it's pretty much a low-buck, balanced 12 CW crank 4.6L with the CC-231, 24# Venom injectors, 63mm throttle body, p&p head, port-matched intake, performance distributors high energy ignition system, Edelbrock header, Autolite platinums, and the best true CAI seen on a Wrangler.
I do wonder if a custom tune would alleviate my issues. My hunting camp is 2 hours from Hesco...I'd splurge if I thought it would be worth the money. I guess that's a whole other thread.

[gradon]

comanche91 would be able to convince you to make that trip if anybody could. I would've gone through them, but wanted a custom dyno-tune, not one that'll work(so far I'm $175 ahead with what I paid for my Uni, but it'll take at least $250-400 to get it tuned).

[TurboTom]

MegaSquirt is $300=$550 and you tune it yourself.
Sorry, I just don't understand buying,, say..roller rockers, then cheezing out on the item that controls your whole engine.
I say run stock rockers...and a good fuel system that you can adjust anyway you want.

[SilverXJ]

Why not?
a) Not everyone runs a drag car
b) on 97+ you lose your gauges, another $500 or so to replace the factory gauges, probably more.
c) can MS even send the proper signals to the AW4 TCM?
d) MS may not be as reliable as an OEM PCM, especially if you are either a beginner in installing/configurating it or don't know any one that can
e) Some states do emissions testing via the OBD II port. Not port, no inspection sticker, and more states are going to start using this method as well.

And you can't just let MS control fuel and timing AND have your 97+ gauges and OBD II readiness. If the PCM doesn't see a sensor, such as the cam sensor, tps, map, o2, coolant, etc, it will throw a engine check light. Sure, you could pull the bulb but that won't help emissions testing. Even if you could get the PCM to see all the sensors and play nice with MS, the moment the PCM sees an AFR or timing it isn't expecting it will throw a check engine light. The alternator is also controlled by the PCM, so that would be replaced. You would need a controller for the stock e-fan, which is controlled by the PCM. If you have a WJ, it would be even worse.

Just because MS is right for your drag car doesn't mean it is right for everyone's daily driver. And on later vehicles its not a simple $300-$500 investment as you think.

[TurboTom]

Why not?
a) Not everyone runs a drag car
b) on 97+ you lose your gauges, another $500 or so to replace the factory gauges, probably more.
c) can MS even send the proper signals to the AW4 TCM?
d) MS may not be as reliable as an OEM PCM, especially if you are either a beginner in installing/configurating it or don't know any one that can
e) Some states do emissions testing via the OBD II port. Not port, no inspection sticker, and more states are going to start using this method as well.

And you can't just let MS control fuel and timing AND have your 97+ gauges and OBD II readiness. If the PCM doesn't see a sensor, such as the cam sensor, tps, map, o2, coolant, etc, it will throw a engine check light. Sure, you could pull the bulb but that won't help emissions testing. Even if you could get the PCM to see all the sensors and play nice with MS, the moment the PCM sees an AFR or timing it isn't expecting it will throw a check engine light. The alternator is also controlled by the PCM, so that would be replaced. You would need a controller for the stock e-fan, which is controlled by the PCM. If you have a WJ, it would be even worse.

Just because MS is right for your drag car doesn't mean it is right for everyone's daily driver. And on later vehicles its not a simple $300-$500 investment as you think.

True
I'll be quiet now

[Plechtan]

Why not?
a) Not everyone runs a drag car
b) on 97+ you lose your gauges, another $500 or so to replace the factory gauges, probably more.
c) can MS even send the proper signals to the AW4 TCM?
d) MS may not be as reliable as an OEM PCM, especially if you are either a beginner in installing/configurating it or don't know any one that can
e) Some states do emissions testing via the OBD II port. Not port, no inspection sticker, and more states are going to start using this method as well.

And you can't just let MS control fuel and timing AND have your 97+ gauges and OBD II readiness. If the PCM doesn't see a sensor, such as the cam sensor, tps, map, o2, coolant, etc, it will throw a engine check light. Sure, you could pull the bulb but that won't help emissions testing. Even if you could get the PCM to see all the sensors and play nice with MS, the moment the PCM sees an AFR or timing it isn't expecting it will throw a check engine light. The alternator is also controlled by the PCM, so that would be replaced. You would need a controller for the stock e-fan, which is controlled by the PCM. If you have a WJ, it would be even worse.

Just because MS is right for your drag car doesn't mean it is right for everyone's daily driver. And on later vehicles its not a simple $300-$500 investment as you think.

A. Megasquirtand other ECU systems are used on many street cars, Not just drag cars.
B. A aftermarket ECU can be hooked up with the factory ECU, the sensors run to both units, but the injectors and ignition are controlled by the aftermarket unit. If you tune it right, you should not pop any codes.
C. The AW4 Is controlled by a TCU ( transmission control unit) the later model TCU gets its RPM signal through the Can Bus, but eariler units read it directly. So you could go to an eariler TCU. Their also useto be a guy making a box that would let you shif the AW4 manually and elminated the TCU.
D. Megasquirt is not as much as a challange as you may think, Perhaps Tom could give us some more details on his install so you can get some idea of the work involved.
E. By going with the piggyback configuration the ODB2 port will still be there.


TOM, Please don't be Quiet!

[gradon]

Now that we've officially sidetracked the comp cam thread, that will work with fuel injection, here's my thoughts: I agree with both Chris and Tom. I loved tuning the psc1--it was a very fun process to wot down 50 with Nick and the laptop next to me, pull over in the shoulder, tweak a value, rewrite to the module, and do it all over again. I could only adjust the fuel, not the timing, and really only the open loop fuel trims. My dumb@$$ knew better than to spray down the engine bay(a little water got in the module and locked it up--was fixed by splitsec forcing another write to it, after I bought the Uni ). For obd2 Jeeps I think the best solution is the Unichip, due to the way it completely interfaces with the 3 harnesses going into the pcm. Another great option is the reflashed pcm. But for 95 and older jeeps, MS would be a good option for the DIY'er. MD also does it's "emission" tests on obd2 vehicles by plugging into the port, so any check engine light, even though it has nothing to do with emissions, will cause it to fail. You can't simply pull the bulb, and they'll even make you come back if the pcm has been cleared/reset and there isn't enough data. Right now I'll fail because I'm bypassing the pcm to turn on the aux fan relay(one of these days I'll wire a separate circuit).