Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Newbies, and basic Stroker Recipes... Get started with your first stroker here!!
cb3
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Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by cb3 »

Hi. I'm a newbie to strokers. I want to have a local performance shop near my area build a stroker for me out of my 4L engine from my 06 LJ Rubicon that has 17,500 miles on it. It's been running on Mobil One 5/40 since breakin completed at 7,500 miles. During breakin it ran on conventional oil. My engine is in "like new" condition, as far as I can tell.

Even though I intend to have it built for me by a professional shop, I still want to know what to have them build so I can get what I want, not what they choose to give me. So I need to learn about strokers before I hire a shop to build me one, so that I know what to ask them to build.

I'm looking for good torque (240+ ft/lbs) from 1200 rpms to 3000 rpms, or ideally from 1200 to 3200 rpms. I'd also like to gain some horsepower, like 40+ ponies (across as wide an rpm range as possible, but especially in low and middle rpms). I don't want to have to rev it way up to get the extra power.

I'd prefer to be able to run mid-grade gas if possible. If I had to run premium gas, it'd be acceptable.

I would like a reliable engine. Is it possible to have a reliable stroker?

I'd like to keep cost, including labor, under $3K.

I'm thinking that either a 4.5L or 4.6L would fit my needs, but I need a recipe to specify to the build shop what I want. They build V8 a lot, but not sure if they've done very many Jeep strokers.

I've read several recipes for 4.6L strokers and most are not even close to what I want for torque curve; however, one I saw was close. Is there a recipe that gives what I want? I don't care if it's a 4.5L or a 4.6L. I'm sure I don't want a 4.7L.

What 4.5L and/or 4.6L recipes do you suggest?
Last edited by cb3 on February 16th, 2009, 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cb3
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Joined: February 16th, 2009, 5:19 pm

Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by cb3 »

4.6L Low-buck Stroker (what does "low buck" mean? How about a $ estimate?)

~ Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
~ Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
~ Keith-Black Silvolite UEM-2229 +0.030" bore pistons
~ Piston dish volume 22cc
~ 9.5:1 CR
~ Crane #753905 204/216 degree camshaft
~ Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
~ Mill block deck 0.035"
~ Mopar Performance 0.043" head gasket
~ 0.058" quench height
~ 2.5" exhaust
~ Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines
~ 256hp @ 4750rpm, 324lbft @ 3500rpm

It's supposed to put out 278+ ft/lbs from 1500 to 5000 rpms. Sounds great for my needs (exceeds my needs), but maybe to expensive. I have no idea what this would cost. What grade of gas would it need? Would it be reliable?

Is that the best recipe for me, or are there more appropriate ones for my needs? This 4.6L looks great, but exceeds my needs and probably my budget. I suppose I should be looking at 4.5L recipes?
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by Cheromaniac »

Since your engine's nearly new and shouldn't need any machine shop work, I suggest you go for this recipe:

4.5L "Poor man's" simple stroker

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Sealed Power 677CP standard bore pistons
9.2:1 CR
Stock 4.0 camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.088" quench height
Stock injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines
247hp @ 4900rpm, 300lbft @ 3500rpm

The only parts you'll need to change are the crank, rods, pistons, and rings so it really would be a cheap build. If you home port your own head you can gain a few more ponies. The HP/TQ numbers above assume the earlier '87-'95 camshaft. Since you have the later version, the numbers will be more like 243hp @ 4700rpm and 306lbft @ 3400rpm.
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1995 Mustang GT - 4AT - Modded Sold
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cb3
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by cb3 »

Poor man's 4.5L stroker: OK. That makes sense, but how come I can reuse my stock pistons and rings? Probably a newbie question, but I am a newbie.

What is home porting and how do I do it?
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John
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by John »

Dino said "The only parts you'll need to change are the crank, rods, pistons, and rings..........." and recommended the Sealed Power 677CP standard bore pistons. You have a low mileage engine, If you don't have to machine the block oversize you will have a 4.2 stroker. They work well.
John
cb3
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by cb3 »

cb3 wrote:Poor man's 4.5L stroker: OK. That makes sense, but how come I can reuse my stock pistons and rings? Probably a newbie question, but I am a newbie.

What is home porting and how do I do it?
I meant, why can't reuse my stock pistons and rings for a 4.2L stroker? What is "home porting"?
eliv1
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by eliv1 »

you acctually can use your old pistons and ring and only change your crankshaft for a super poor mans stroker,
the only downfall is that you will have a high compression engine, the will only run on premium.

i guess it will work great aslong as you fill up premium and you'll get some decent torque and HP numbers... as long as you make sure to use bigger injectors and use most common bolt-ons such as a 63 TB, header and 2.5" exhaust...

search this forum for "porting" for more explanation, it has been covered througly with alot of pictures, check out dino savva's home page and this forum FAQ for the basics...

good luck!
88 CJ8, 4.5L Stroker ,P&P Head ,Compcam 68-231-4 cam , 4.0L Junkyard MPI , 99 Intake, Borla Header,2.5" Flowmaster + piping,Electric Fans;SUA 4" lift on 33" tires ;4.11's Dana 44 F&R LockRight , High Steer with CTM's ;OBA;Full Cage.
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by dwg86 »

The piston pins are pressed onto the rods. The pistons might get damaged when pressing them off the rods. They use a rod heater to put the new pistons on. The new piston pins just slide into place after the rods are heated.

Home porting is using a die grinder and a porting kit(rolled up sand paper) to remove the rough castings in the runners. Just smooth them out, don't try to reshape or remove a lot of metal.
eliv1
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by eliv1 »

dwg86 wrote:The piston pins are pressed onto the rods. The pistons might get damaged when pressing them off the rods. They use a rod heater to put the new pistons on. The new piston pins just slide into place after the rods are heated.
all I was saying, that it is possible, but a skilled man.... so he's letting a shop build his engine either way, so the shop could try and re-press the pistons on a 4.2L rod.

I have done this once on a friends cheap-ass stroker.
88 CJ8, 4.5L Stroker ,P&P Head ,Compcam 68-231-4 cam , 4.0L Junkyard MPI , 99 Intake, Borla Header,2.5" Flowmaster + piping,Electric Fans;SUA 4" lift on 33" tires ;4.11's Dana 44 F&R LockRight , High Steer with CTM's ;OBA;Full Cage.
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by Cheromaniac »

cb3 wrote:Poor man's 4.5L stroker: OK. That makes sense, but how come I can reuse my stock pistons and rings? Probably a newbie question, but I am a newbie.

What is home porting and how do I do it?
I suggested you use 677CP pistons to keep the CR down. If you reuse the stock pistons (you'll need new rings anyway), the CR will be 9.7:1 and you'll likely have low/medium rpm pinging problems even with premium fuel.
You could opt for the higher CR but you'll also need a longer duration camshaft to reduce cylinder pressure and prevent the aforementioned pinging problem. With the camshaft you'll inevitably need upgraded valve springs/retainers/locks and this will add to the cost, so it won't be a 4.5 poor man's stroker anymore.
Here's an excellent article about DIY porting cylinder heads:

http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.aspx
1992 XJ 4.6 I6 - 5MT - Stroker build-up, Stroker "recipes" Sold
1995 Mustang GT - 4AT - Modded Sold
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cb3
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by cb3 »

How about mixing some E85 into the gasoline to raise the octane for a high compression ration engine to prevent pinging?

I've already been mixing gas with E85 in my stock 4L engine for about 9 months. It's running on 40% E10 midgrade gas mixed with 60% E85. Been working great for 9 months. Just as much power as with full gas, maybe slightly more. Same fuel economy, or very near same (my calculations show the fuel mileage to be 0.2 to 0.3 mpg less, but that's so close to running full gas as to not matter).

Actually, I think I could probably be using 87 octane lowgrade gas with this mix, instead of 89 octane midgrade gas. No pinging ever, and haven't noticed any problems of any kind. My Mobil One 5/40 oil at 4000 miles looked as clean as new last oil change.

Before settling on a 40/60 mixture for my stock 2006 4L, I first experimented with 50/50 mix. That worked fine. 40/60 mix and that worked fine. 30/70 mix and that worked fine, except when using compression braking going downhill, my "Check Engine" light came on. So I went back to the 40/60 mix and it's been working fine for 9 months.

One of my local mechanics (he owns 07 Wrangler), and also the manager of the local NAPA store (he owns mid 90's Toyota), do this mixing in their trucks (with no E85 conversions installed) and say it's fine for engines that are 95 and later. They've been running mixture for 2 years each and say it's working great for them. Another one of my other local mechanics told me not to mix gas and E85 in an unconverted engine, but he also doesn't like E85 in converted engines either. So I figured the advice was split/divided amongst the knowledgeable local guys I know - so I decided to try it and see for myself. After 9 months of personally running a 40/60 mixture of gas and ethanol, I can report that so it works great in my stock 2006 4L engine. My cousin has been doing the same with his 98 XJ and reports that it works great for him too, and he drives it like he stole it.

The same gas station sells E10 and E85. So I put in 7 gallons of E10 gas (into my 19 gallon tank), then fill up with E85.


I'm wondering, if I made a high compression stroker (possibly by reusing my stock pistons), if I couldn't just mix E85 (105 octane) with E10 gasoline (either low grade 87 or midgrade 89) and not have any pinging problems due to the higher octane of the E85 boosting the octane of the overall mixture. I have no idea what mixture I might run in a high compression stroker, though. If I were to do that, some trial and error experimentation would likely be necessary. As a starting point, I'd begin with 50/50, then try 40/60, and so on.

I assume the injectors would have to be larger due to being a stroker, and larger due to mixing the gas with E85? Hmm. What size injectors?

I don't think that I want to run (or set up to run) full, 100% E85 because that offers less topend lubrication. However, the 40/60 mix I'm running seems to work great.

What do you think?
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by dwg86 »

That seams like a lot of trouble filling up every time. My opinion...Get some new hypereutectic pistons and have them dished and keep your quench .060 max. You can get a set of pistons off ebay for $130.00 or check summit for some speed pro h802cp or h825cp. One of them cost around $20.00 a piece and the other is around $30.00. Spend $200.00 to $250.00 (that includes milling for increased cc's). Like I said...my opinion ;)
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by dwg86 »

Look at this build viewtopic.php?f=8&t=645&start=0
cb3
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by cb3 »

I can afford new pistons (especially at the great prices one of you mentioned). However, since I'm a newbie, I was curious as to why I couldn't, or shouldn't, reuse my stock pistons. Thanks for explaining that. If the CR would be to high for premium gas, that would be a problem because when I'm out of town, I might not be able to get E85 if I don't know where those fuel stations are.

As for my 40/60 gas/E85 mix and convenience in my hometown, it's not much trouble because the two pumps are side by side at same fuel station. No trouble at all, except to run my credit card through the pump twice. Also, I live near that gas station. So easy to mix.

I think I've got it figured out now (with help of some of your guys' advice) that I want a setup that is designed to run on premium gas with no pinging (what CR would that be and how to achieve that?). That way, when I'm out of town on a road trip, and don't know where to find E85, I can fill up on 100% premium gas and be fine. When I'm in my hometown I can use my mixture since I know where to get it. I realize that a stroker might require a different mix than my stock 4L does, but I can play with that when the time comes.

So if I aim for a CR that works reliably with premium gas, I think it will also (probably) work dandy (possibly even better) with a mixture of gas and E85.

Even though I plan to hire the build done for me by local pros, I want to have the specs figured out for what I want - so I can tell them what I want them to build. I don't want to just let them decide what I want. You guys are very helpful. Thank you.

One thing I think I've established by 9 months testing is that the stock injector on my stock 4L works well with the 40/60 mix. So it seems plausible/possible to me that the correct size injector for a poor man's stroker running on premium gas would likely also work well with a 40/60 fuel mixture.

What CR and injector size would be ideal for a poor man's stroker that runs on premium gasoline? Also, as a curiosity, what injector size would be best for 100% E85?
Since I don't intend to run full E85, but only a mix, I'll probably use either the injector size used for premium gas for that stroker, or maybe an injector that is in-between (in size/output).

Thank you all for your input, help, advice. You guys are a wealth of knowledge.
eliv1
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Re: Please recommend an appropriate stroker recipe for my needs.

Post by eliv1 »

if your buying new pistons and dishing them, i would build an engine the would run on regular and not premium, ofcourse it is your choice, but there is no high gain from that.
88 CJ8, 4.5L Stroker ,P&P Head ,Compcam 68-231-4 cam , 4.0L Junkyard MPI , 99 Intake, Borla Header,2.5" Flowmaster + piping,Electric Fans;SUA 4" lift on 33" tires ;4.11's Dana 44 F&R LockRight , High Steer with CTM's ;OBA;Full Cage.
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