Jeep stroker for 1936 Dodge Sedan

[johnhalabama]

I know this is a little different but that is what I am going for. I'm building a 4.6 stroker for my 1936 Dodge Sedan. I've yet to see one in a hotrod.

I've started with a 96 4.0L & a 81 4.2 Crank and rods. I've got a Clifford Performance intake and a new 390 Holley. I'll probably go for the Clifford Headers before it's all said and done and run dual exhaust. Not running power steering. Block will be decked. 904 trans w/ a Dana 35 3:55 out of a Cherokee. I plan on putting a locker in.

I don't want to go to radical because I am looking for reliability and don't plan on changing this out any time soon but I want the most I can get out of the engine.

I plan on running a hi-volume oil pump and hv water pump.

I'm tied up on suspension right now but plan to fit the engine this week and fab up the motor mounts and trans mount. Once I do that and set the pinion angle I can pull the engine and tear it down.

I know most everyone on here is building these for rock crawlers but any thoughts on putting this in a hotrod? The car will be probably around 2,800lbs when done. I will probably set it up to pull a tear drop trailer we are going to build later. It should have plenty of torque to handle that.

I'll definately be asking about cam preference and pistons.

John
Chesapeake VA

I have a full line of pictures on http://www.killbillet.com/showthread.php?t=6990
and suspension pictures on http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/journal ... alid=72913

engine.jpg

[yuppiexj]

Love the build progress, it looks great so far.

Are you going to chop it?

You are in the running for most unique drivetrain combo in a 30s dodge.

[johnhalabama]

I'll plan on chopping it about 2-1/2". There is a picture of a friends car on the last page of killbillet that is chopped probably 3-1/2"

Anyone can drop a V8 and be just like everyone else. I was considering a Dodge Cummings turbo diesel but my friend suggesed a stroker and gave me a deal on a rebuilt 904, new torque converter and holley carb, $500 for all. That was enough of a start to get me going.

It fits the car better since it came with a six and just looks cool. I'm thinking about running a black street scoop with red butterflies and probably leave the sides of the hood off and may just build some zoomie header right out the side.

Needless to say it will definately be different. I'm not all about being like everyone else. I like everything so far about the strokers and will probably build a Cherokee at some point with one also.

[SilverXJ]

Looks like a really different and interesting project you have going there. I like your think on the V8 too. However... as much as I like the I6.. a Cummins would pretty bad ass.

[Mgardiner1]

...a Cummins would pretty bad ass.

That would have been my other consideration in my own jeep, a straight 6 diesel

[Alex22]

...a Cummins would pretty bad ass.

That would have been my other consideration in my own jeep, a straight 6 diesel

It probably weights as much as your jeep.

John, that build looks great. There are a few other builds on here that went for higher RPMs and HP instead of the usual torque monsters so you're not alone on this type of engine.

[johnhalabama]

I want to build a high rpm stroker, or with more power on the top end. I want to run a higher compression and I'm not too worried about low octane gas since I won't be driving this every day.

I have a 96 4.0L engine and using a 1981 4.2 crank (shorten the nose of the crankshaft) using a longer duration cam for better top end power.
From what I understand I have two options:
1) 4.2 crank w/ the shorter 4.2 rods and use the 4.0 pistons and deck the block .010 to get the quench height to stock (or)
2) 4.2 crank w/ the longer 4.0 rods and use custom pistons with a shorten pin height (1.380)

Is there any benefit to one of these two options for a high rpm engine or is it primarly a cost thing? (I would think the #1 option would spin up faster with the shorter stroke but the #2 option would have more power with the longer stroke.)

I probably need to post this somewhere else in the forum but I'll start here... I would greatly appreciate any input.

[dwg86]

Well, the stroke is the same on both options. The longer rod would be a better option, less piston side loading and the piston doesn't come out of the cylinder as much on the bottom of the stroke. KB sells a high compression stroker piston for the longer 4.0 rod.

Here are some pics I posted a while ago showing the 4.0 vs the 258 rod installed in the block with a 258 crank. If you click on the pictures they get bigger. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=442&p=4867#p4867

[heartlandoffroad]

"SWEET BUILD" It shouldn't be hard to get that car moving with it only weighing in at 2800lbs. Do you mind if I ask why the D35 when they are known for being a axle that very weak especially when you put a locker in it. I know the car is very light compared to our Jeeps but why not go with a 8.8 out of a Ford Explore they are the same WMS as the D35 it is allot stronger and it has disk brakes or a D44 out of a Grand Cherokee it could have disk also. Again I love the build just a question I had. Would hate to see someone go through a great build and not be aware of this and have axle problems because it is a C clip style and are prone to braking axle shafts. Love The build

[SilverXJ]

why not go with a 8.8 out of a Ford Explore they are the same WMS as the D35 it is allot stronger and it has disk brakes or a D44 out of a Grand Cherokee it could have disk also.

The 8.8 isn't the same WMS (Explorer is 59.625", the D35 is 60.5"), as people use spacers to get it to the same WMS, however this is still probably the best to use. The D44A are known to have a bent housing pretty easily. the 8.25 is another option which strength similar to a D44.

I'm not sure that the D35 will be a problem in his case as they usually don't fail a whole lot with strictly road driving. Its the off roading that breaks them. He also has a light car so it would even be less stressful on the D35.

[heartlandoffroad]

why not go with a 8.8 out of a Ford Explore they are the same WMS as the D35 it is allot stronger and it has disk brakes or a D44 out of a Grand Cherokee it could have disk also.

The 8.8 isn't the same WMS (Explorer is 59.625", the D35 is 60.5"), as people use spacers to get it to the same WMS, however this is still probably the best to use. The D44A are known to have a bent housing pretty easily. the 8.25 is another option which strength similar to a d44

You are rite there is a .875 difference in WMS. Most people around here don't worry about being .4375 narrower on each side to put a wheel spacer in to correct it.
My thinking is he is going to put a locker in it and I see from his pics. he has a 4 link and if he builds a good amount of power and hooks it up with it being a weak axle to begin with there is a good chance of braking it.
It's just that the D35 is known as the turd axle of the Jeep and no matter how much you polish it 's still a turd.
As for it being street driven you are probably correct in that he wont have a problem but if he ever does take it to the track he will probably drive it there and he will want to be able to drive it home. If it were me I'd put a 9" in it because a Explorer 8.8 is still a C clip axle but that's just me.

[SilverXJ]

You are rite there is a .875 difference in WMS. Most people around here don't worry about being .4375 narrower on each side to put a wheel spacer in to correct it.
My thinking is he is going to put a locker in it and I see from his pics. he has a 4 link and if he builds a good amount of power and hooks it up with it being a weak axle to begin with there is a good chance of braking it.
It's just that the D35 is known as the turd axle of the Jeep and no matter how much you polish it 's still a turd.
As for it being street driven you are probably correct in that he wont have a problem but if he ever does take it to the track he will probably drive it there and he will want to be able to drive it home. If it were me I'd put a 9" in it because a Explorer 8.8 is still a C clip axle but that's just me.

I didn't see where he was going to 4-link it, or put a locker in it. But you are right in the respect that the D35 isn't worth putting any money into it. If it was a just a bolt in affair with no gear, carrier, or welding then that is one thing which I thought he was doing to do.

However. the D35 is also a light axle which may benefit him. The ford 9" is a popular and probably the best choice, but might be over kill. If he puts disc brakes on the 8.25, D35, or 8.8 he won't have to worry too much about the c-clips. And if he doesn't have a locker he won't be going any where any how with a snapped shaft (no 4x4). The discs will at least keep the wheel from walking away while it is towed.

[heartlandoffroad]

I've started with a 96 4.0L & a 81 4.2 Crank and rods. I've got a Clifford Performance intake and a new 390 Holley. I'll probably go for the Clifford Headers before it's all said and done and run dual exhaust. Not running power steering. Block will be decked. 904 trans w/ a Dana 35 3:55 out of a Cherokee. I plan on putting a locker in.

The last sentence says he is putting a locker in it.

If you look in these pics on his build page you'll see it is a 4 link. http://www.killbillet.com/attachment.ph ... 1233623346
http://www.killbillet.com/attachment.ph ... 1233623346

[dwg86]

I want to build a high rpm stroker, or with more power on the top end. I want to run a higher compression and I'm not too worried about low octane gas since I won't be driving this every day.

I have a 96 4.0L engine and using a 1981 4.2 crank (shorten the nose of the crankshaft) using a longer duration cam for better top end power.
From what I understand I have two options:
1) 4.2 crank w/ the shorter 4.2 rods and use the 4.0 pistons and deck the block .010 to get the quench height to stock (or)
2) 4.2 crank w/ the longer 4.0 rods and use custom pistons with a shorten pin height (1.380)

Is there any benefit to one of these two options for a high rpm engine or is it primarly a cost thing? (I would think the #1 option would spin up faster with the shorter stroke but the #2 option would have more power with the longer stroke.)

I probably need to post this somewhere else in the forum but I'll start here... I would greatly appreciate any input.

Check out comanche91's build. I was impressed with his numbers on the dyno. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=387&start=0

Also, I would aim for tighter quench than stock. Maybe a zero deck, quench around .040-.045.(My opinion)

[johnhalabama]

Thanks for the advise on the rods guys (and the axle). I'll look up the pistons you mentioned.

I went with the D35 Axle because it was free and because I wanted to keep everything in the Dodge family if possible. As far as the locker they make a lock-rite locker that just locks up when power is applied and then disengages when you let off. Worst case I will be pulling a 1,100lb tear drop camper. I don't plan on doing any hard cornering or side stress that will affect the c-clips. At worse if it breaks, I pull it, weld two new mounts on a heavier axle and bolt it in. I did find out that some of the old Volvo's use the D35 axle and there is a cheap disk brake conversion if I want to change that out. It's free so more money I can put into the engine for now....

I'm waiting on a hoist and some time off to fit the engine and tranny and fab the mounts and then I can tear it down and get going on the stroker.

I really appreciate all of the the advise. I know this is not your typical application but next one is going in a jeep when I get done with this. I'll definitely get some more pictures once I get the engine set in the car.

Thanks guys,
John