JP magazine's Stroker "Insane Inline" is DEAD

[1bolt]

[Edit changed Crane to Comp cams, my bad for not double checking]
Their stroker build (a Golen long block) is getting a stock 4.0 put in it. They mentioned this in their letters section this month!

They gave no details or story which I find damn suspicious because JP mag is as thin as 5W20 on a cherry red Header for content the last couple years. So they only mention that it took another 20,000 miles...

If you don't know the back story: They got a Golen long block bolted on lots of good parts and got it the dyno 268hp and 324 ft lbs at the flywheel. In a later update they admited that the Comp cam ate a lobe around 20k miles.... So they had another Crane cam put in. And they tuned it with a Unichip.

This last referense to "Insane Inline" they only said that it went "another 20k" miles... They didn't mention the cam, but they don't have to... Crane is an advertizer.

I think the worst part is they don't bother to look into it, and they're just going to shove an old unstroked 4.0 in as if the fact that it was a stroker had something to do with it... I think a few of us should write JP and ask them why they just non-nonchalantly dropped this in the letters section instead of doing Jeepers a service and investigating why they keep eating Comp Cam shafts and why they don't have the balls to talk about it.

[1bolt]

I'm surprised this interested no one but me considering that this is the most well publicized stroker build in Jeepland. And one of the only strokers ever dyno'ed with differing parts combinations and Unichip dyno tuning.

[oletshot]

I wonder if they couldn't figure out how to put in a different manufacturers cam without losing Crane's support. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the case as JP seems to be more loyal to their advertisers than their readers. Maybe they don't know who really pays the bills. Is Golen an advertiser too? Seems they would be bending over backwards to keep this high profile engine going. But then again you would also think Crane would like to clear it's name also. I guess they sell enough SBC & SBF cams that they don't have to worry about their rep with us Jeep strokers. As far as Crane goes, I've never heard an exact reason their cams fail (not enough ZDDP in oil, too heavy springs, poor break-in proceedures, poor engine assembly, and/or they just suck), but I've heard enough to look at other manufacturers. Their cams aren't "special" enough to take the risk of actually using one. I'll have enough things to worry about when the beast is up and running, wondering if that's my cam lobe on my magnetic drain plug hopefully won't be one of them.

Of course this rant ASSumes that there was a second cam failure in their stroker, if this turns out to be wrong by all means please ignore.

[Flash]

I'm surprised this interested no one but me considering that this is the most well publicized stroker build in Jeepland. And one of the only strokers ever dyno'ed with differing parts combinations and Unichip dyno tuning.

You have got my interest, just never read the JP mag (and just barely click on this link for the first time) so i didn't now what was going on, thanks for the back issue up date.
I have all way defended Crane, because there was more then just crane that had cam failures...........................But in the past year, i have ..........well a crane cam is not in my stroker plans. Mostly because i like the comp 231, and MPP 230 cam profile better for what i want my stroker to be.

Maybe JP mag needs to look for some different sponsors

You would thing that crane would have given them the best of the best stock for this Public right up!!! especially after the first on failed..........and maybe they did, and thats the problem

Flash

[jsawduste]

First time poster here. See a few familiar names from the Yahoo group.

Regrading JP`s stroker. Pretty sure they were running a Comp Cam not a Crane. In any case the reported failure dies spark a few questions.

Have a call in to Both John Cappa, Editor and Christan Hazel, Tech Editor of JP. Hoping they will return the call and provide a little more detail.

If it is in fact a cam failure. There is nothing about a stroker would explain why. It is more likely an oil, valve spring pressure or lifter hardness issue then the cam itself.

Will update when more is known.

FYI both Cappa and Hazel can be reached at
323-782-2000

[oletshot]

Just reviewed the article and your absolutely correct, they used comp cam not crane. After first failure, which was at 10k miles, they didn't feel it was the cam and used another comp cam. They did mention that they got the cam kit but couldn't use the springs as they found their Golen stroker uses chevy springs and retainers. Wonder if this had anything do the failure(s)?
I also flipped thru the mag looking for a Crane Cam ad and couldn't find one.
So for blaming Crane for a cam failure on a cam they didn't even produce, and saying JP is more loyal to an advertiser, that doesn't advertise with them, than to it readers, I must say, "I'm SORRY, I was WRONG and made comments and placed blame before I had all the facts."
It won't happen again.
Who am I kidding, it will certainly happen again. Probably quite often to.

[1bolt]

It's my fault for saying Crane in the first place. But frankly it doesn't matter what cam it was the ZDDP is the problem. An issue they haven't brought up. And I will stand by what I said, just substitute comp cams for crane, and the basic intent is the same. I don't feel like they're doing Jeepers any favors by glossing over the failure of their one and only I6 performance build in the freakin letters section.

[jsawduste]

FWIW I tried Cappa and Hazel again today. No answer.

[jsawduste]

Update time

Had a nice conversation with Christian Hazel, Tech Editor of JP. The Insane Inline was his actual DD. So he knows the engine well.

The first failure was indeed a cam. Rounded over #1 intake and exhaust lobes. Evidence is pointing to a lubrication issue in that modern day SJ oil was used with no additive to supplement the ZDDP levels.

Latest failure is a lack of compression in #6 cylinder. NOT a cam failure. Suspect a broken piston land or perhaps a burnt valve. The engine had been dyno tuned utilizing a Uni-Chip module. With spark and fuel curves optimized for those dyno conditions. Likely cause was detonation from a long pull in a high ambient temperature.

As of this writing the engine has not been taken down to determine what the failure was. Plans are to eventually investigate but more important matters are at hand.

This "new" engine had been fed Valvoline 10w-30 supplemented with GM EOS or Comp Cams oil additive.

[1bolt]

Interesting, I have no idea what "more important matters are at hand" means I can't think of a more useful service to the Jeeping community than analyzing the failure of a popular upgrade. Except then they are sheding a poor light on Golen, and Unichip.

I wonder if he was spraying when it pinged to death?

[jsawduste]

Actually no, he was not spraying. According to Hazel (remember this is his daily driver) they made a few passes down the street and a dyno pull. After that the bottle was removed. All in the interest of keeping his DD alive.

Upcoming Moab and some 6 other project vehicles are keeping them pretty busy.

[tirod]

I assume editors and writers have a life - family, house, yard to mow, kids to take to soccer, etc. Tearing down a DD engine for a forensic exam can take second place to getting the thing back on the road. It's his Daily Driver, i.e., the vehicle he depends on for transportation to get to work and back home. It can be pretty inconvenient sharing a ride with the wife if she has to go 30 miles the other way.

I've been reading here and elsewhere on strokers going down, and cams aren't always the reason. Lots of issues in that area alone, what with cheap import lifters flooding the market, modded valve trains, etc. I find it interesting that the Engine Masters builders will check to install the correct length pushrod, and Jeepers will shim, or just drop stockers in a decked block/head combo and pray. These little things count. As for a Unichip causing detonation, we tend to dyno tune a little richer for power, not lean for gas mileage. Detonation is caused by lots of other things - poor manifold distribution, sharp edges in the chamber, plug heat range not optimized, undersized injectors going lean at full throttle, inductive plug wire routing, etc. Every change made from stock has an offsetting consequence, and we don't always see the dark side until the rods are sticking out of the block.

Heck, if my stroker lost a lobe or piston, I'd strongly consider the tried and true factory stuff to get it running now, not weeks or months down the road. I need my Jeep, and that's why I wade through all the issues on a stroker to understand what may be risky. So far, I see a lot of money getting spent on substitute parts from other makers rather than optimized factory combinations, and that's where a lot of problems crop up.

[jsawduste]

Here, here Mr.Tirod.
Well said and communicated.
Unfortunately many forget to read the "fine print" when assembling an engine. But those same are often the first to lay blame.

Thank you very much.

[oletshot]

I assume editors and writers have a life - family, house, yard to mow, kids to take to soccer, etc. Tearing down a DD engine for a forensic exam can take second place to getting the thing back on the road. It's his Daily Driver, i.e., the vehicle he depends on for transportation to get to work and back home. It can be pretty inconvenient sharing a ride with the wife if she has to go 30 miles the other way.

I've been reading here and elsewhere on strokers going down, and cams aren't always the reason. Lots of issues in that area alone, what with cheap import lifters flooding the market, modded valve trains, etc. I find it interesting that the Engine Masters builders will check to install the correct length pushrod, and Jeepers will shim, or just drop stockers in a decked block/head combo and pray. These little things count. As for a Unichip causing detonation, we tend to dyno tune a little richer for power, not lean for gas mileage. Detonation is caused by lots of other things - poor manifold distribution, sharp edges in the chamber, plug heat range not optimized, undersized injectors going lean at full throttle, inductive plug wire routing, etc. Every change made from stock has an offsetting consequence, and we don't always see the dark side until the rods are sticking out of the block.

Heck, if my stroker lost a lobe or piston, I'd strongly consider the tried and true factory stuff to get it running now, not weeks or months down the road. I need my Jeep, and that's why I wade through all the issues on a stroker to understand what may be risky. So far, I see a lot of money getting spent on substitute parts from other makers rather than optimized factory combinations, and that's where a lot of problems crop up.

The fact that he does have a life is an excellent point. It is something a lot of us may forget when we read these articles. On the other side of the coin though, your stroker wasn't paid for by a magazine (again I am assuming JP magazine paid for the Golen stroker and that Mr. Hazel didn't use a personal check) or part of an ongoing article. Inconvenience may be a small price to pay for a free stroker. Just another way of looking at it.

[Flash]

I assume editors and writers have a life - family, house, yard to mow, kids to take to soccer, etc. Tearing down a DD engine for a forensic exam can take second place to getting the thing back on the road. It's his Daily Driver, i.e., the vehicle he depends on for transportation to get to work and back home. It can be pretty inconvenient sharing a ride with the wife if she has to go 30 miles the other way.

I've been reading here and elsewhere on strokers going down, and cams aren't always the reason. Lots of issues in that area alone, what with cheap import lifters flooding the market, modded valve trains, etc. I find it interesting that the Engine Masters builders will check to install the correct length pushrod, and Jeepers will shim, or just drop stockers in a decked block/head combo and pray. These little things count. As for a Unichip causing detonation, we tend to dyno tune a little richer for power, not lean for gas mileage. Detonation is caused by lots of other things - poor manifold distribution, sharp edges in the chamber, plug heat range not optimized, undersized injectors going lean at full throttle, inductive plug wire routing, etc. Every change made from stock has an offsetting consequence, and we don't always see the dark side until the rods are sticking out of the block.

Heck, if my stroker lost a lobe or piston, I'd strongly consider the tried and true factory stuff to get it running now, not weeks or months down the road. I need my Jeep, and that's why I wade through all the issues on a stroker to understand what may be risky. So far, I see a lot of money getting spent on substitute parts from other makers rather than optimized factory combinations, and that's where a lot of problems crop up.

I agree the stock cam is the safest way to go........200,000+ miles on most with out a problem...........and with a stock cam.............stock pushrod and rocker arms would keep you in that tried and true window(as long as you didn't deck the block or shave the head.)

But we all want to make it run better stronger and faster..........Unforcanatly it may not go in that order and we as a jeep community will learn form other mistakes, find answer to problem of present and some day have a non Factor stroker that will last just as long as any 4.0L. only with a lot more power and efficance.......In the end.

I can't help but thing that stock Rocker arms, my or could be at fault with a aftermarket cam that my push the tolerances that the lifter was designed to do.(Some stock rocker arms my actually run out of room to move or even more likely, is that that rocker arm has been happy and has worn a polish surfaces of the stock .420" lift(for 200,000+ miles) and now with a after market cam, and more lift, will cause that tried and true rocker arm to have to bounce over a groove that was the end stroke of the stock rocker arm w/stock cam.


Flash