Aftermarket ECU controllers

Performance mods and Advanced Stroker discussion.
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Plechtan
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Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by Plechtan »

Has anybody replaced the Factory ECU with tunable aftermarket unit? I know there are some high dollar units out there, Motec Haltech, electromotive, etc and Megasquirt, which could be installed for a few hundred bucks, depending how much work you want to do.

I was curious about the problems, performance gains, if you replaced Renix, ODB1 or ODB2, I was also wondering if the computer also controlled the automatic trans. I was looking at a 99 and it looked like the trans had a kick down linkage, so is the trans not computer controlled?
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by yuppiexj »

The trans is computer controlled, the kick down cable is actually only controls line pressure (soft slushy shifts at part throttle, less soft slushy shifts at full throttle). Some of the Toyota folks suggest pulling the cable all the way and clamping it to get firmer shifts all around (same family of transmission)

The 99 apparently has the Trans computer integrated into the ECU.

My 88, 88, 90, 94, and 95 XJs all have a TCU (Transmission Control Unit) under the passenger side dash.

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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by Plechtan »

Most aftermarket efi controllers do not control the trans, so i guess it is either use a manual trans or look for a standalone trans controller. I know that GM sells one for the 4l80E, and ATS sells one for the dodge ram diesel trucks. Anybody know if the Chrysler trans controller would work with a aftermarket controller?
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by amcinstaller »

seems to me the AW4 looks for a few things from the factory ECU like speed, rpm and brake. if you could get a wiring diagram you MIGHT be able to provide those elsewhere. (megasquirt has rpm outputs for various uses)
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by Plechtan »

Not much response here, looks like either there is little interest or little experience. The thread on aftermarket intakes was about the same. Maybe because of cost, not allot of people seem to building very high performance I6 motors. It seems once you get over 6,000 rpm or 300 HP, things start to get very expensive. Most people on the board seem happy with a 5200-5400 redline and 260-300 hp. It looks like the dollar per HP equation changes greatly once you start going over 6000 rpm. Since the airflow of the head is the biggest restriction to making HP, the most cost effective build would be to bore and stroke to the Max. I think most jeep blocks can be bored to 4" and if you are able to also get a 4" stroke out of it, mabe that would be the ticket. With an engine like this you would start the be restricted on airflow above 5,500 rpm. Maybe somebody can run some desktop dyno numbers to prove me right or wrong.

But the real topic here is Aftermarket ECU controllers. I have looked at several, and think i have settled on 2, the Megasquirt and the Haltec. The meagasquirt will require the use of a Eord EDIS ignition, but is cheap and parts can be purchased used at a wrecking yard. The Megasquirt currently does not support sequential fuel injection and runs in the batch mode. I recently purchased a Haltech unit which does support sequential fuel injection and coil-per-cylinder. Information can be found at http://www.megasquirt.org andhttp://www.haltech.com

I plan to make plug and play harnesses for both to replace the Renix and also to work on the ODB2 engines. I currently don't have a vehicle that is ODB1, but once i get the first 2 working i will look at the ODB1 application.

As for the AW4 issue, well it does have a separate control unit on all vehicles. The later ones talk directly to the ECU to get some information. So if you did put a aftermarket ECU on a later vehicle, you may have to go back to the earlier Transmission control unit.

Anyway you 0look at it you will be spending $800 to $2,000 to put an aftermarket ( tunable) ecu on you I6 motor.
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by SilverXJ »

Plechtan wrote:Not much response here, looks like either there is little interest or little experience. The thread on aftermarket intakes was about the same. Maybe because of cost, not allot of people seem to building very high performance I6 motors.
I think the problem is that a) the strokers are suppose to be low buck items and b) most of the people are off roading or just daily driving them, where low end torque (where the 4.0L excels) is needed. The same thing on the roller cam. While I would love one for simply reliability purposes I don't want to spend $1000 in one. $500 would be fine with me though. Same goes for a belt cam drive. Also, what does one look for in a custom intake manifold? I know two people that I could probably get a custom intake manifold from but I don't know what to ask for.
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by Plechtan »

The name of the topic is performance and tech, not budget builds.

With the Hesco aluminum block coming out (sometime!) and people start boring blocks to 4", induction requirements will increase. I am not impressed with the Clifford intakes, and i think the 99+ intake will start showing restriction because of the long runners. Many (most?) people are using an aftermarket exhaust or header, why not an intake?

As for the aftermarket ECU issue, this could be of interest to somebody putting a stroker into a early Wrangler or CJ. I think you could get away cheaper than the Mopar EFi upgrade. People like myself could be looking for an alternative to the Renix or ODB1 systems. Something that is tuneable. The basic Megasquirt is $400.00 assembled. The kit is think is only $160.00 These prices are well within the reach of the budget builder and could add performance and economy to a daily driver.

Putting in a aftermarket ecu will require allot of technical knowledge, but once it is done everybody can benefit from the engineering.
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by SilverXJ »

Another problem with an aftermarket ECU in an on road registered vehicle is that there is no OBD, which is not a problem in itself. However, some states plug into the OBD II port during emissions testing. No port, no pass.

Then there is the problem with the gauges. In the 98+ Jeeps (I think it is 98 when the switch was) the gauges aren't controlled by separate wires. It is all on a twisted pair bus which the PCM controls. In that case you would also need new gauges.

I would like to go with a Megasquirt system, but the above reasons prohibit it, the first especially. For people with the older vehicles it would be very feasible.

I don't see the Hesco block coming anytime in the near future though. It would be nice and it would be nice for some major changes instead of the like head, which it basically a stock head cast in aluminum with some minor changes.

As for the intake I too would like to see some more options, but like the rest of the 4.0L parts there isn't a whole lot of aftermarket support.
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by John »

"The name of the topic is performance and tech, not budget builds. "
Thanks Peter, we agree on something else. I recognize there is budget restraints on most builds, but the blue plate special is not the only thing on the menu. Hot rodders through the years are one of the reasons we can buy factory motors in today's forms. Postings of budget builds using factory components have paved the way to a resurgence of interest in the I6, but it sure as hell isn't the end of the road in performance for this motor, speed/power still costs money, each of us has to decide how much we want. Not all of these builds will go into daily drivers & a grocery getter. Things learned and things developed through the performance builds will eventually find their way to other areas of use. Not all of use our motors for highway licensed vehicles, and aftermarket support will not be there until the mindset of the building community gets beyond u pullit yards.

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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by TurboTom »

I like the MegaSquirt..worked great for me.
You can run a dizzy and MSD if you want, no need for the ford EDIS.
I am working on a fully adjustable stand alone ignition system that works with the stock Jeep coil pack.
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by Plechtan »

TurboTom wrote:I like the MegaSquirt..worked great for me.
You can run a dizzy and MSD if you want, no need for the ford EDIS.
I am working on a fully adjustable stand alone ignition system that works with the stock Jeep coil pack.

So you are not using the Megasquirt for the ignition?
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by TurboTom »

I am using the MS for the race car engine.
The stand alone ignition is just another product I am working on.
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by amcinstaller »

i like the megasquirt, and ill probly use it for my stroker. my only beef is this, if i use the MSII, like ive been told i need to, it fires the injectors all at once, or at least thats how it looks here:

http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m142 ... system.gif

i still need to investigate this system a bit more before i make any purchases though. i could be mistaken, and what i really need is someone to use it on a motor like im building (stock 4.0, stroked 4.0) and give me a little more insight how they hooked it up.

(ps- tell me if anyone cant see this picture)
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by Mgardiner1 »

Judging by that picture, i would not assume it fires all injectors at the same time just because of the one arrow. Its just showing a general hookup list. Besides, if the picture was how it works, then it would only fire 4 injectors :doh:

Shoot them an e-mail and ask if its sequential fuel injection! :wiggle:
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Re: Aftermarket ECU controllers

Post by John »

amcinstaller wrote:i like the megasquirt, and ill probly use it for my stroker. my only beef is this, if i use the MSII, like ive been told i need to, it fires the injectors all at once, or at least thats how it looks here:

http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m142 ... system.gif

i still need to investigate this system a bit more before i make any purchases though. i could be mistaken, and what i really need is someone to use it on a motor like im building (stock 4.0, stroked 4.0) and give me a little more insight how they hooked it up.

(ps- tell me if anyone cant see this picture)

http://www.megamanual.com/seq/index.htm This is what they have in mind?
John
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