Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by Cheromaniac »

jsawduste wrote:Dino, the noise went away after holding the lifters to #6 up.
Yeah I did notice that but I threw the torque converter to flexplate bolts out there anyway since the OP had exhausted all other options.
I compliment the OP on his methodical and thorough approach to diagnosing the problem.
The only other thing I can think of is to check the lifter preload. However with the OP having already moved the rockers and pushrods around and the noise still remaining at the back, it looks like there's a problem either with the no.6 exhaust valve itself or the valve seat. The only way to find out is to pull the valve and inspect it.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by optmaxx »

NickInTimeFilms wrote:Optmaxx: I did unplug the spark plug and injector on number 6 with valve train in tact and started it but it still made the same exact sound. I did not try it for the other cylinders, but I doubt it would show anything. Might try it anyway just for continuity. Couldn't tell you anything about the connecting rods unless I ask my engine guy, but if it's a small detail then he might not have noticed it.

Interesting find on your broken rings. Were they immediately visible when they were still in the engine? I had the head off, but I didn't look very hard at the rings themselves but the bores still looked very clean so I figured all was good. I'll keep that in mind if I poke around in there again. Thanks for the suggestions!
I couldn't tell if they were broken while they were still in the engine. I did have scuffing on the walls from the piston skirts that was most likely caused from having broken rings.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by Retlaw01XJ »

Can you video the rockers in operation and then play it back in slow motion? Saw a guy do that on his 455 Buick.

Not sure if this will work..... while running, slowly back off the nut for the rocker holddown. That will change your lifter preload and eventually create it's own noise from excessive clearance. Anybody want to comment if this will work....

I was thinking insufficient valve-guide to retainer clearance, but you're not using a big cam. What valve springs? are they being compressed solid? Any broken springs? Wonder if a valve is hanging up and not closing smoothly.

The piston-underside/ connecting rod end clearance suggestion makes sense too. Rod ends usually need to be ground for clearance for the KB pistons.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by jeepxj3 »

Acting like there is no preload on the lifter. Maybe a bent rocker, bad rocker cup, bad pushrod balls, shortened pushrod, or the head rocker pedestals are too tall.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by NickInTimeFilms »

Retlaw01XJ wrote:Can you video the rockers in operation and then play it back in slow motion? Saw a guy do that on his 455 Buick.
If you watch the first video in this thread at 6:08 I have good slow motion of the rockers. That's how I think I narrowed it down to 6th cyl exhaust.

I did try backing off the 6th rocker bolts to listen for a sound but even with the bolts very loose I didn't hear much of a change.

Using stock Jeep valve springs. When rotated to max lift there is still decent gap in the springs, and a still frame of slow mo still shows gap. No broken ones from what I can tell.

Image

Image

Talked to my engine guy and he didn't take anything off the small end connecting rod for piston clearance. This would cause a constant knocking no matter what though right? Wouldn't it be apparent in most or all of the cylinders and also during first start up? My knock is only in 1 cylinder and started after 500 miles of use.
Last edited by NickInTimeFilms on November 4th, 2015, 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by NickInTimeFilms »

jeepxj3 wrote:Acting like there is no preload on the lifter. Maybe a bent rocker, bad rocker cup, bad pushrod balls, shortened pushrod, or the head rocker pedestals are too tall.
Thought that maybe the rockers, bridge, or pushrods may have been the cause so I moved the whole 6th cyl valve train to the 1st cyl and vise versa. Noise was still at the rear. Even tried putting on the old rockers on 6th but still no dice.

Not sure about pedestal height.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by SilverXJ »

NickInTimeFilms wrote: Using stock Jeep valve springs. When rotated to max lift there is still decent gap in the springs, and a still frame of slow mo still shows gap. No broken ones from what I can tell.
You can't check springs like that. Hydraulic lifters bleed down.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by NickInTimeFilms »

SilverXJ wrote:
NickInTimeFilms wrote: Using stock Jeep valve springs. When rotated to max lift there is still decent gap in the springs, and a still frame of slow mo still shows gap. No broken ones from what I can tell.
You can't check springs like that. Hydraulic lifters bleed down.
How would you go about checking spring bind then? I would figure that the lifters are pumped up while the engine is running and that would show an issue on the video wouldn't it?

As for testing:

-The elimination test showed no change. One cylinder at a time I removed spark plug wire and injector wire then started it. Sound was present during each test.

- Backing off the rocker bolt didn't change noise until it was so loose that the rocker bearing could start jumping around, even then the original noise remained unchanged.

I'm going to check lifter preload and possibly cam lift for the back few cylinders and look for oddities, then it's off to the springs to see what we can find.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by NickInTimeFilms »

Alright, I didn't check Lifter Preload, Valve Lift, or Worn Valve Guide but I'm not sure If I need to.

-Did the elimination test proper and no change.

-Did the pushrod elimination test proper and surprisingly with this there was also no change in sound from what I can tell. If that's the case then I don't think it's a top end noise we are dealing with anymore.

Put a second video together so you can listen to everything yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-hHyUOyzuQ

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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by CandyCaneXj »

Are you sure the flexplate itself is not cracked around the flexplate to crankshaft bolt area? If it's cracked you can tell by removing the dust cover and looking at it with a good light. That would explain why it's doing it no matter which cylinder is not hooked up and it kinda does seem like the noise is worst when all cylinders are hooked up. Although I can't say I definitely heard it when the #6 plug was out.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by NickInTimeFilms »

CandyCaneXj wrote:Are you sure the flexplate itself is not cracked around the flexplate to crankshaft bolt area? If it's cracked you can tell by removing the dust cover and looking at it with a good light. That would explain why it's doing it no matter which cylinder is not hooked up and it kinda does seem like the noise is worst when all cylinders are hooked up.
I took a good look earlier when Dino suggested the flexplate bolts. I didn't take a really close look at the flexplate itself but I don't remember seeing anything that stuck out. I may pull the cover one last time to put it to rest but my doubts are high. It just doesn't quite sound like transmission area.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by CandyCaneXj »

I would check that before tearing more stuff apart. When mine was cracked i could only tell because I was looking for a crack. It was hairline and didn't actually come apart or even twist but just made a knocking sound.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by jeepxj3 »

I'm wondering if you took out the last/end cam bearing?
It seemed that both #6 I and E were causing the noise. The valve spring pressure is slightly flexing the cam and the cam is banging in the cam bearing.

I doubt it is a flex plate bolt noise, that wouldn't stop when removing the #6 I and E.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by CandyCaneXj »

jeepxj3 wrote:I'm wondering if you took out the last/end cam bearing?
It seemed that both #6 I and E were causing the noise. The valve spring pressure is slightly flexing the cam and the cam is banging in the cam bearing.

I doubt it is a flex plate bolt noise, that wouldn't stop when removing the #6 I and E.
It sounds like the noise does not stop with the intake and exhaust on #6 disconnected? Only when he had the plug out is when I didnt hear the noise unless thats because it was covering it up.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by SIXPAK »

Maybe just my eye but why is there so much of a difference in the valve spring seat height on #6? Personally i would be pulling number six rod and piston, cant hurt.
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