New 4.6L stroker build

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SilverXJ
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by SilverXJ »

ARH wrote:I was gonna that at least now you can get the 12 counterweight crank... but I guess not?

Looks good, tho!
1) I already have bearings for a 10/10 crank
2) finding a 12 cw crank is hard
3) Finding a 12 cw 10/10 crank is even harder.
4) I'm lucky I even got the 10/10 4 cw crank
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SilverXJ
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by SilverXJ »

It appears that my web server is having some difficulty so the images may not show up yet. Check back in a few hours and hopefully the issue will be cleared up.

Crank installed, all pistons on the rods.

Of course, some pics:
Pistons on the rods:
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Notch in rod bearing:
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Crank:
Image
Image

Now, he had a slight problem with the KB944 pistons. This was only a problem on the lightest rod, where the small end balancing pad was untouched. The first problem was he wouldn't get the piston pin to go into the other side of the piston once it passed though the rod. The problem was the rod kept hitting the far side of the piston after the pin had gone through the rod. The problem was the unaltered rod kept hitting the piston, pushing the rod up. In the pic below the circle shows where the rod had to be slightly modified to stop the rod from riding up. Once that was done he discovered that the piston wasn't rotating on the rod. If you look at some of my earlier piston images you see a nipple on the underside of the piston. That nipple was making contact with the rod end, causing it to bind. That little bit of piston material was removed allowing the piston to rotate freely on the rod. It appears that Keith Black didn't do 100% of their homework.

Image
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Mgardiner1
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by Mgardiner1 »

Did all of the rods have to be rebalanced and get weight matched over again?
oletshot wrote:....and silvolites are only cast not hypericantspellits. :-)
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by SilverXJ »

No, the amount he took off was so little it didn't matter.
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RAPTORFAN85
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by RAPTORFAN85 »

I don't think it is KB's fault. Even my Diamond pistons didn't fit on the rods with the top balance pad. I had to have the top balance pads machined down to fit the pistons to rods. I think it's to allow a good amount of material in the piston dish with the short pin height. I think all long rod strokers have this problem, although it's easy to fix.
"Strrrrroke me, stoke me...."

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SilverXJ
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by SilverXJ »

This isn't a custom piston though. It is a piston build for a 4.x stroker using the 4.0L rod and 4.2L crank. If its built for a specific rod, it should fit that rod without modification. Thats my feelings on it anyhow.

Anyhow, the machine shopped finished it today. $850 out the door (told her to just charge me the $50 for the crank core now as I haven't brought them the 4.0L crank yet.) Painted it there than brought it over to my storage unit. The two brass freeze plugs came in while I was waiting from Carquest. I was planning on picking it up on Moday to let the paint dry and all... but I decided the paint was dry enough to move it. Picked up a friend.. loaded it in the ZJ at 3.. drove to storage, bolted the engine stand on, dropped it off, covered it up and had my friend back at his place at 4.

Image

So far with tools, oil, paint, parts, and machine work it has run me $3025

Now the fun begins. Install and degree the cam, install the main girdle, install oil pump and oil pan, install lifters install head, measure for pushrods (stock might work for now), install timing cover, install harmonic balance, install flex plate and drop it in.
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by SilverXJ »

After some error on my part in measuring deck clearance here are my numbers:

Cylinder #; Front; Rear
1; .004
2; .003
3; -.001 (above deck)
4; .0013
5; .0043
6; .0039

So, quench ranges from .043" to .0483"

Yes, my connecting rods aren't the same length. So much for stock connecting rods. But it will do, and my machinist says it is normal for stock rods to be off this much.. I would like to see .004 or .005" across the board though.


At this point I have found the deck clearance and degreed my cam. A few pics from that.


The setup: (18" degree wheel)
Image

How I attached the pointer (water pump bolt, some random brass bushing filled and a piece of hanger)
Image


Dial indicator setup on intake pushrod
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Finding TDC 20* before TDC:
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Finding TDC 20* after TDC:
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That was after I had adjusted the pointer to TDC and used a dial indicator instead of a piston stop.

TDC:
Image

Intake valve open at .050":
Image

Exhaust valve close at .050":
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I installed it straight up and that is what it is. Center line worked out to 107*, which is what it is suppose to. I also checked teh valve open and closing timing. The Intake Valve Open was slightly off. I got -5.2* BTDC, when it should have been -4* BTDC. I verified all readings 5 times. I don't think 1.2* off will matter in my application. This is the first time I degree'd a cam. I was actually over thinking it and just confused myself while thinking about it, but once into it it was very easy. Its good to know that the cam reads close to what it should be. BTW, its a Comp Cam 68-231-4


How it sits now:
Image

Image

The only check left I have to do is the valve to piston clearance. I picked some weak springs up at Home Depot to replace the running springs so teh lifter won't compress. I am not expecting any issues, but I might as well verify that sine I have everything. Hopefully that is tomorrow. If I have time I will also put the timing cover on, the main girdle on and the oil pan on.
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by SilverXJ »

I checked the valve to piston clearance today. I used some weak springs I found at lowes to replace the stock springs so my lifters didn't bleed down and didn't put any stress on the cam. I did it with out the head gasket (.044") and then put some feeler gauges between the rocker and valve tip to increase it to about .064". Put some silly putty in the piston dish to measure how far the valves stick in them. What a waste of time that was! The valves didn't even touch teh silly putty which was about 1/6" thick at least. At least I know that there won't be a clearance issue.

Other than that I put the main girdle on.. noticed that one of the rod caps only have .020" of clearance between the cap and girdle. Enough? Installed the oil pump and pickup. Torqued down the cam bolt. I was going to install the timing cover but I didn't have the correct size woodruff key for the harmonic balancer. I picked up a 3/16" x 7/8" woodruff key from Home Depot... it appears to be the correct size.. can anyone verify that?

No pics today.. you are probably getting tired of all the images and I forgot my camera at home.

I was thinking about installing the head, but don't want to take a chance that I do something stupid like rotate the engine on the stand with out anything holding the lifters in and they all fall out. I'll wait until I have the timing cover on and the oil pan sealed up.

Is till need to check the push rod length though. But I can check it then install teh engine if I need to order pushrods.
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by hmd100100 »

I've been follwing this thread by the minute ... I can't wait until you fire up that engine....

I hope everything goes well as I'm planningto do the same exact stoker for my Jeep. I even have the exact year and color XJ as yours :D

And by the way, there is no such thing as "Too many images"
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by aaronkeiser »

I agree, theres no such thing as to many images, the builds without images are the boring ones IMO. I tried to start my own Engine build or should I say drivetrain swap on "Projects" but I cant paste pictures into the text box :brickwall: . If I cant show pictures I figure I won't waste your guys time.
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by SilverXJ »

Some more progress. Took off work an hour earlier.

Last shot of the timing gear before cover goes on. Hope I don't have to see them for a long time.
Image

Timing cover and balanced installed, yeah I left the blue tape on too long and it took some paint with it.
Image

Oil pan was then installed... its an oil pan..

Last shot of the pistons bfore the head goes on:
Image

.044" head gasket:
Image

Head installed:
Image

Intake manifold, exhaust manifold, water pump, water pump pulley, t-stat housing and spacer installed, oil filter adapter all installed:

Image

Image


And then there was a moment of sheer panic. While cleaning up I couldn't find the cap for the bottle of oil I had opened. Last place I remember seeing it was on top of a piston in the block! Tried to look into the pistons with a flashlight, not much to see. I eventually checked through the garbage and put all the tools away, and finally found the cap.

And I do need to order new pushrods. The stock ones are too long. I need some 9.600" rods. I'll probably run a shim under the rocker until I get the rods.
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by dwg86 »

Trend has one piece, chromemolly, guide plate compatable 9.600 pushrods for under $6.00 a piece. I can't rember the exact price $5.67 or something that like. I can't remember thier web site. Do a google search for Trend pushrods.
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by Diamond-x »

Looks great, I mean really Great!

I believe we've built the same engine, see mine here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=598305

You'll really like the torque, off the line to about 45 mph is inspiring. Can't wait to see it fired up.
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by SilverXJ »

Diamond, I think you and I have talked before. Is this your first stroker? I would be interested to find someone (other than myself and that doesn't count because I haven't driven a stroker in a while) that has a 4.6L with the KB pistons and perhaps had one with the 4.2L/4.0 pistons to see what their opinion is. It appears that out builds are early identical. I got banned from JF for making fun of CheroREDkee or what ever his name was, for his twinkle time lights.

Anyhow.. I am going to be running shims under the rockers until I get my correct length pushrods, but that won't be long. I have the rockers adjusted with the shims, the engine mounts on, oil sender installed, oil adapter and filter installed and a few other minor things today. I was thinking about dropping the engine in today but I did want a pic of it fully assembled and ready to go, but I forgot my camera. It was late anyhow so I cleaned up the storage unit and got the tools ready for tomorrow...

I also purchased some Valvoline VR1 10w30 for after the cam break in. Also modified an old cam sensor drive to use as a priming tool.

Almost forgot... I had another "oh shit" moment today. I dropped a shim and it fell through a push rod hole. I thought they were a bit bigger than the pushrod holes, but I guess not. Ran over to carquest and got a small magnet pickup as the larger one I have won't fit through the hole (hey.. thank chrysler... you don't make the pushrod hole big enough for a magnetic pick up nor a lifter, but it is just the perfect size for a rocker arm shim to fall through). Retrieved it with the pickup.

So tomorrow it goes in. I doubt I will be able to break it tomorrow in but we shall see.
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Re: New 4.6L stroker build

Post by Diamond-x »

Twinkle time lights....classic. My next mod. You should check the recent noob who put a GMC front bumber on his rig and asked for opinions, it went on for 7 or 8 pages last check.

I think I've posted here once or twice.

Yes, this is my first stroker. It's my first complete engine rebuild. I did a Nissan 240 sx about 5 years ago, fun toy and fast. I wouldn't be able to tell you the differences with other pistons and rods. I've never owner a 4x4 prior to this but always wanted one. My primary car is an Excursion, which as you can imagine gets poor mileage. I tow a boat during summer so I need to keep it around but I also need a car with better mileage. The wife and I talked and we decided thay we could spend $10,000 on a newer car or build one. So I picked up a 92 Cherokee with 146,000 miles for $1300, I have approx $5300 in it now. I was planning a rebuild, the stroker was kind of an after thought. I started searching around on the net and found this site, and read about Dino's simple stroker. Well one thing led to another....
I ended up taking the 92 block and rods, getting a 258 crank (the heavy one) and the KB944's. The pistons were the perfect choice with the dish volume and pin height, just a little pricey. I also have the same cam as you and purchased mopar springs, retainers and clips. My year engine has the 7120 (higher flow) head. I also purchased the Ford 24# injectors on ebay, a lot of guys build their Mustangs and sell the old injectors. I have the same head gasket as you and milled the block leaving .010, so my quench is .054. It runs great on 87 octane. I just ordered a Rugged ridge Header and will get a hi-flow cat. I'm undecided on the muffler. I don't want a droning type, like a flowmaster, but when I get into it I want to hear it. I'll probably end up going with 2.5" system.

Be sure to use a non-detergent oil when breaking it in. Detergent oils keep the metal suspended in it, where a non-detergent would let more rest in the pan. and use a ZDDP additive as comp cams recommends. My breakin was 20 minutes at 2000 RPM with 30 wt and zddp. Then I let it cool and changed to castrol 10w-40 anf zddp additive, plus changed the filter. I'll run that for 1,000 miles and then go to a 3,000 mile schedule with 10w-40, maybe add more zddp. I also drilled a tiny little hole at 12:00 o'clock in the thermostat, this allows the air to self bleed from the system. a cool little trick I read about somewhere.

I bought the vehicle in august and since then I've:
Rebuilt stroker, 258 crank, 242 rods, kb944 pistons, sealed power rings, clevite bearings and cam bearings, comp cam 68-231-4 and lifters, mopar springs, retainers, clips and stock push rods, ford 24# injectors, champion plugs(??), oil filer adapter o-rings, new cam drive gear, new stock oil pump, one piece oil pan gasket, cork valve cover gasket, radiator, power steering hoses, various lights including new headlamps, winch motor, internal rocker switch for winch, alarms system, CB, Rear hatch lift shocks, BFG 32x11.5x15 on 15x8x4" back space steelies, gorilla black-chrome lugs, black center caps, fuel filter, Rustys 4.5" lift full rear packs, 6 degree shilms, shocks, discos, YJ rear brake hose.

I have an issue with my transfer case and I think it's the chain skipping, so I need to swap the chain. I'll probably put in an SYE and new rear drive shaft. Possibly be boring the throttle body to 60~62mm and adding a K&N. I've also been looking at the Currie HD steering components. I've heard that the rustys track bar has failed on a few guys so I'll probably swap that too. I would love to do the rear brake swap and the quadratec catalog arrived the other day with a full Dana 30 upgrade for approx $1600 another $600 for front/rear 4.10 gearing. of course new rear axles are in order. Have I missed anything?

Bumpin' sound system, fuzzy dice.

I enjoy it. Today I retorqued the head, although it hadn't changed. And the cam still has all the lobes so I got that going.

I got to say that this site is a great resource for stroker info. Also the Jeep inline 6 is a very functional motor. One of it's few issues is the rear main seal, although mine is holding tight. Other than that I hope for many miles out of this rebuild.

I also have to mention again how impressive your project is. Really clean. That sticker on the pan is slick and your attention to detail is impressive. I'm sure you'll have a great running rig with plenty of power. And all out of a storage unit, don't let them find you working on it. some of those places ban it due to fire danger and the mess it makes.

Sorry to drag on and for the detail, I'm just proud of it as I'm sure you are with yours.

Diamond-X
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