I've lost my mind.. or an MP90 on a 4.6L

[MrNoBody]

No, I won't be messing with the head now. I have no reason to run anything higher than 6psi. 6psi should put me around 325 hp. Its a safe amount and won't grenade the engine. The engine wasn't designed with boost in mind and I'm going to see if it can be done.

It can be done and I don't blame you given all the time and expense you vested just to get motor running right. Initially, remove 3 degrees of timing per psi and you should be fine given your compression ratio. Then add back one half degree increments of timing until HP is maxed and no detonation.

Because I have $2000 to pay someone to do that. Care to donate? I could also add an inter cooler at the same time for an extra $1000. And I would have a very nice $3000 manifold to run 6psi boost on something that is worth maybe $6000.

You should have bought a Honda if you were worried about resale value. lol. Is your time worth nothing? How many hours of labor do you have invested; how much for machine work; how much for parts; how much for storage room; how much for mp90; by engineering standards you are over budget as it appears the $6k mark past long ago. Most enthusiast don't care about resale -they want what they want.

Not to mention lack of room in the engine bay to make the intake runners truly the same length. lol.

At the 8th wave-set the runners would be half the length. However, just by some rudimentary calculations I did for you since based upon your statement I perceived you had no clue what I was talking about and these calculations made using the "Helmholtz" equation, using the 4th wave-set from the center of valve stem to center of throttle body should be 12.95 inches if your max boost is approx 2500rpm.

The cam sensor signal needs to be retarded with CPS so the PCM doesn't make noise. It doesn't like it when the two signals don't stay with each other.

The engine doesn't like the injectors firing at the wrong time in relation to ignition; not to mention, wet fuel can get drawn into other cylinders it wasn't meant for. I know nothing about the AEM piggyback you are using, but if it's inherent design is to give end user the ability to adjust timing and fuel -then I'd not second guess the engineers, and I am not saying they are always right, or that their designs are flawless(some of the time it is the budget constraints they work under).

[SilverXJ]

You should have bought a Honda if you were worried about resale value. lol. Is your time worth nothing? How many hours of labor do you have invested; how much for machine work; how much for parts; how much for storage room; how much for mp90; by engineering standards you are over budget as it appears the $6k mark past long ago. Most enthusiast don't care about resale -they want what they want.

It is nothing about resale value. I just don't feel like putting that much money (which I don't have that much) in to it. I have x amount available and I will not exceed x amount.

At the 8th wave-set the runners would be half the length. However, just by some rudimentary calculations I did for you since based upon your statement I perceived you had no clue what I was talking about and these calculations made using the "Helmholtz" equation, using the 4th wave-set from the center of valve stem to center of throttle body should be 12.95 inches if your max boost is approx 2500rpm.

No,I understand, but 12.95" runners for #1 and #6 won't work if you intend to make the rest the same. This isn't a cross flow head so you are limited as to how much spaghetti you can have on that side.

[MrNoBody]

I have x amount available and I will not exceed x amount.

Did you figure a factor of safety of 2(two times x amount)?

No,I understand, but 12.95" runners for #1 and #6 won't work if you intend to make the rest the same.

If you look at the design of say a 1994 intake and compare it to the design of the 2000 -while flow doesn't like turning sharp corners this was not the only reason for the curved runners out of the plenum -when the soundwave travels from #1 intake valve closing thru runner it's going in the direction of #5 without having to make a sharp 90 degree turn, it follows a smooth curve -this wave is carrying excess fuel, hot air, and it's traveling at a high velocity -cool air enters thru throttlebody further accelerating this flow charge toward the #5 intake valve which is now beginning to open, injector #5 squirts wet fuel into hot, high velocity flow charge where as a result of environment, it gets atomized much more rapidly and into a finer particle size; thus, the soundwave enters #5 just as the valve begins to open. If soundwave was to hit valve before opening it would reflect back the opposite direction and against flow. This can improve volumetric efficiency up to 100+% on a naturally aspirated air pump. This also helps meet EPA guidelines.
In the case of the 1994, the soundwave travels from #1, hits plenum, reflects, and enters #2, but #5 is next to fire after #1 and the volumetric efficiency suffers, as does fuel MPG.
Therefore, if you take your pencil and hold it above rocker cover at roughly the center, over #1 cylinder, envision motor running, #1 intake valve closing, and then follow the wave as it travels thru intake runners with your pencil to #5, then #3, then #6, then #2, and lastly #4; you will see why your 2000 intake is designed the way it is. W's have more linear distance than U's if you were to flatten into a straight line(linear distance). W's are also more complicated to time than U's due to all the angles of incidence.
Lastly, you are changing this equation some with forced induction as your volumetric efficiency should surpass 100% provided all the alterations to make it work, don't work against it.

This isn't a cross flow head so you are limited as to how much spaghetti you can have on that side.

I'm Italian and happen to like spaghetti! The same principles apply no matter the farfalla, linguini, or angel hair(pasta type) it all gets tomato based sauce -it's what you put into sauce, and timing/temp the sauce is cooked that makes the biggest difference.LOL Too include the exhaust side -where you place that catalytic converter and muffler make a difference.

[SilverXJ]

Small update

I modified the throttle cable bracket for a smaller foot print. Still a bit larger than I like.

Positioned over a scale print of the intake plate, top of the image is toward the hood:

Being that the SC will be positioned on the intake manifold at an angle I will also be rotating the throttle body and bracket at the same angle, maybe a bit more. Clearance with the valve cover will prevent further rotation.

I also got the hardware for mounting the SC to the various plates:

[CobraMarty]

Nice, the bracket looks like it was fun.

[JolleyRoger]

There is no DROOL smiley!

[SilverXJ]

Nice, the bracket looks like it was fun.

The hardest part was locating it in reference to the throttle body. Especially since I am only using one stock hole on the mounting bracket. I triangulated the holes from the throttle body mount to the one hole on the mount. I also checked it with a charcoal rub scanned in. That gave me one point and the bracket is pretty much parallel to the TB. I also measured the extended cable lengths to check alignment as well. That one hole is with in .010" of the stock location, which is good enough for me.

One leg was added and another was the stock one which was cut and turned 180* then welded back on. That is the one under the TV cable hole, the largest hole. Then came clamping it all down and welding it up. I needed to grind a bit to get the legs straight with the bracket. I'm no expert welder but I think it came out quite well. I was tempted to use the TIG but in the interest of time I went with MIG.

[CobraMarty]

Not to be a debbie downer, will the 3 cables reach the new installed bracket location?

[SilverXJ]

Oh yes, the throttle and TV cable will actually have more slack now. I'm only concerned about the cruise control cable as it may be a bit short, but its easy to move the cruise control bellows.

[SilverXJ]

I went to layout the vacuum ports on the throttle body adapter plate and realized there isn't much room there. I will definitely have to use a vacuum manifold for the three smaller lines on the side of the manifold. For the water/meth nozzle I will either have to drill and tap a hole on the back of the SC in the cavity before the rotors or put it on the intake tube. I will also make a small throttle body spacer to allow for clearance of the vacuum fittings and allow for clearance on the IAC flange. Probably 3/8" or 1/4". I may also change the thickness of the TB adapter plate from 1/2" to 3/8". The MAP sensor will also have to be moved from the throttle body to a remote mount to allow room for the fittings. Future planning for the 68mm throttle body doesn't allow for much offset or the hole due to shrouding by the SC input flange. I could always modify the flange a little.

[SilverXJ]

I think I have found a solution to the throttle body adapter.

Keep in mind that the SC is rotated 15*, which will make the throttle body near level.

Green are the NPT fittings for the various vacuum items, blue is the throttle body spacers, and purple are some guides (countersunk bold heads, inside of SC, outside of SC). I will have to shave a bit of the inside of the SC at the bottom where the TB opening is, but still plenty of material to seal. The booster fitting will be a 1/4" NPT to 3/8" hose 90* fitting, the PCV will be a 3/8" hose to 1/4" NPT straight fitting, the Vac manifold will be a 1/2" hose to 3/8" NPT 90* fitting, and the bypass will be a 3/16" hose to 1/8" NPT fitting. I may swap the bypass and PCV ports though. Looks like everything will be cut out of 3/8" plate.

Hopefully I can cut some mock ups this weekend.

[SilverXJ]

This weekend's mission is complete with test cuts finished. I need to make some minor changes, but not bad. Everything fits. The material is a piece of 1/4" diebond (aluminum outer, plastic core) bonded to a 1/8" piece of diebond. Its not quite 3/8", but close enough for this. They really don't actually measure 1/4" and 1/8".

Bottom piece. The countersunk bolts will go toward the head side, studs go fender side. I may narrow it down a bit for clearance. I need to go a touch deeper with the countersink bit as one bolt is just a hair above the plate. Not much though.


Head side with simulated studs. Stud length may change.


TB adapter plate bolted on, NPT ports not complete yet, but pilot holes drilled:


TB and throttle bracket spacer, needed for IAC clearance and adds a but more clearance for NPT ports:


TB and throttle bracket bolted up:


Top view:

[montelibre]

It´s a very nice work!!
I have a hard problems to legalize my Supercharger, here in my country.

[CobraMarty]

It´s a very nice work!!
I have a hard problems to legalize my Supercharger, here in my country.

What are they having issues with? Visual inspection? Exhaust sniffer?

[SilverXJ]

It´s a very nice work!!
I have a hard problems to legalize my Supercharger, here in my country.

Thank god I don't like in California, or other counties that are vehicle nazis.