New stroker cranks but won't start

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bulfo4
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New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by bulfo4 »

Hey Guys, we swapped the 1996 HO engine we had with a Golen 4.6L over the last 3-4 months and have been pretty meticulous about trying to clean things up and put them back, upgrade whatever we can, reading forums here and elsewhere, watching install videos, etc. A few nights ago we went to start it, and it cranks, but won't ignite, and we could use some help.

What we've done so far (some by plan, some chasing ideas from forums, some perhaps irrelevant):
- primed the oil pump
- indexed, indexed, indexed the distributor (using a handful of different techniques but basically finding TDC and stabbing the distributor in pointed at about the 5 o'clock (where the #1 plug wire comes into the cap)).
- break in fluid
- added 99+ intake manifold
- added headers
- added a 3-fan kit
- added 24lb mustang injectors (which leaked at first, but we fixed that)
- brand new Denso O2 sensors on upstream and downstream
- cleaned out the Neutral Safety switch
- in the last 6 months, have replaced the Cam sensor, the Crank sensor, the idle air control module, map sensor, distributor, wires, champion plugs
- unplugged and replugged about everything
- painted the engine compartment
- scraped paint to attach new grounds including replacing the strap from the engine to firewall with a much beefier cable
- relocated the battery to where the airbox was (snorkel with inline air canister - made room for a york compressor on the passenger side later)
- re-wired from the battery to the starter, fuse box, ground on the engine, and ground on the fender
- doublechecked the crankshaft position sensor and it's in there solid and plugged in well

What else we've found:
- fuel on the spark plugs - so we know it's getting fuel
- spark from the ignition coil
- spark from the plug wires
- 90+lbs compression on cyliners 2,3,4 (couldn't get gauge to take on the others but we figured if 2,3,4 are good, there should have been SOME kind of ignition happening and we have none at all)

So, right now we're not too concerned with it running WELL yet, just getting it running AT ALL.

Our big question - With fuel, spark, and compression, what are we missing to have this thing actually fire and run, even if it's rough? Any deal-killers like the CPS we should be checking?

Thanks for all of the info we've gotten from forums already, and thanks for the help on this too.

Tom
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by showtime3492 »

Only 90# compression on 2,3,4??? Shouldn't it be more towards 140#?
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SilverXJ
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by SilverXJ »

90 PSI is low. 140+ should be good. Did you sync up the cam sensor too?
bulfo4
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by bulfo4 »

Thanks guys!

The compression was something over 90, and that was without any actual combustion going on. At Golen's advice, he said that should be okay for the moment until it really starts going and takes off.

Syncing the cam sensor - in the distributor, right? Seems like there's only two parts to the distributor that can be 'set' the rotor/pulse ring/teeth, etc, and the base/sensor/cap which has to line up with the mounting hole on the engine. We've set it so at TDC, the oil pump slot is at 11/5 o'clock, and the rotor points towards 5 o'clock where the #1 sparkplug wire comes into the distributor cap. I know there's supposed to be alignment holes in the bottom of the base and on the pulse ring, but since the pulse ring's attached to the rotor, setting the rotor should also set the pulse ring, right?

I should add, we're reasonably mechanically inclined, but definitely not mechanics, and it seems like we have 99% of this right, and we're missing like one little thing, so feel free to suggest anything, no matter how basic that we might have overlooked, 'cause that's probably it.
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vashxj
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by vashxj »

did you try to take a fuel pressure reading you may be getting fuel but not enough pressure, and if your getting spark you should have cam/crank signal cuz if you didnt it wont spark until it sees piston 1 tdc. if i remember right, i could be wrong
bulfo4
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by bulfo4 »

There's a lot of pressure at the relief valve, but we haven't put a gauge on it yet. Thanks for the suggestion!

And good to know if we have spark the cam and crank should be working.
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by SilverXJ »

bulfo4 wrote:And good to know if we have spark the cam and crank should be working.
While you have spark and (maybe) fuel, there is no guarantee its at the correct time. There is a post on there about having to synch up the cam sensor on a dizzy.
bulfo4
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by bulfo4 »

"There is a post on there about having to synch up the cam sensor on a dizzy."

Cool, looking for that now.
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by 92tank »

90 psi should be fine as it has NOT started yet so the rings have not set yet. it sounds like you you problem is timing related, possibly 180* off? or even one tooth off as it "looks" but it not. (been there done that)
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vashxj
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by vashxj »

thanks silverxj thats what i ment, just because it has spark means the sensors are seeing something but it could still be out of sync
bulfo4
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by bulfo4 »

Thanks everyone! It's not there yet, but these are just th kind of suggestions we're looking for.

So yesterday (not all in this order) we:

Re-indexed based on the method here (after trying wit a compression gauge anx not having much luck we used a wine bottle cork inside a rubber glove makes a pretty good 'finger' to put over the hole)
Got good compression turning it over on the #1 (in addition to 2,3,4 we checked yesterday)
Checked fuel pressure and got 49psi at the rail.
Pulled the plugs, grounded them on the ac compressor and ran it once to check that every one of them indeed had bright blue spark (they did).
Pulled the injectors and slid a garbage bag in for them to squirt into and ran it - every one had solid fuel coming out (and we've had fuel on the spark plugs before so we kind of figured it was getting fuel)
Carefully pulled one plug and held a long neck lighter for a grill in front of it and ran it - it lit - to verify again that fuel was indeed getting into the chamber
Repositioned the neutral safety switch and got solid reverse lights (already cleaned it out well) (found we had a bulb out which was good)
Multimeter tested every ground
Literally unplugged and replugged every connector to connector (in case one looked like it was in but had wiggled loose)
Compared our distributor to a new one at the store (identical)
Replaced the coolant sensor at the back of the head (ours broke pulling the engine and the new crate engine had a plug in there( if you do this, be careful it's VERY fragile - brass and hollow - ours broke in half and we had to get it out and get another one))
Replaced the crank sensor which had been working with another one when we just couldn't find anything else.
Put in more free premium gas
Cleaned throttle body (those are all new sensors too)

And a big question - we bought an obdii scan tool and checked it throughout all of the above - it never finished syncing so our latest thought is could the ECM/PCM be bad? - i haven't searched yet, and I will, but does anyone know off hand a good write up for checking a PCM or if I get one for cheap from upullit if it would do anything at all before getting it re-coded for this vehicle? Again, we'd be optimistic if there were ANY ignition even if it's rough at this point.

Could it not be getting out the burned fuel/air through the exhaust somehow? The muffler and cat are othe fairly new and worked fine before. We added headers but I wouldn't think that should keep it from exhaling.

I'm down for trying more stuff today, but I really don't know what we haven't tried at this point. Totally willing to buy a new, coded PCM for this (open to suggestions of where online) but its a bit pricey if that's not it.

Or on Monday or tuesday, we're about ready to just tow it to a mechanic and give up.


Suggestions (or anyone living in Albuquerque)?

Thanks guys!
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by 92tank »

have you tried moveing the dizzy counterclockwise one tooth. i had one the did the same thing and it was off one tooth. moved it and fired right up. it was not a stroker but they are the same on the outside.
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vashxj
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by vashxj »

was the pcm working fine before? unless you dropped the engine on it when you were putting it in or hooked the battery up backwards it should still be fine. it really sounds like something with the timing
bulfo4
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Re: New stroker cranks but won't start

Post by bulfo4 »

The PCM was working fine before so it seems like it should be good, but the code reader not pulling anything up made us think maybe there was something going on there.

I'll try moving the distributor one tooth counterclockwise and see if that does it.

Thanks, guys.
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