604's double 4.6 build
-
- I made it to triple digits!
- Posts: 137
- Joined: November 27th, 2011, 9:24 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1995
- Vehicle Model: XJ
604's double 4.6 build
WHY BUILD ONE WHEN YOU CAN CAN HAVE 2 AT TWICE THE PRICE!
(thats a movie quote if anyone knows their late 90's movies)
im happy to report that after months of researching, posting, collecting parts (used & new!), ect... the stroker builds are taking the next big jump - machine shop time!
ive made reference to this in some of my initial posts on the forum, but a friend and i are building near identical 4.6 strokers for our lifted XJ's. my initial stroker plan was for my lifted 95 XJ however i bought a stock 00 XJ and swapped all my lift parts, bumpers, tires, ect over. i also picked up a spare 99 long block which i will be using for my stroker build. the 95 xj was converted back to stock and sold. my friend has a 98 XJ and is also using a 99 donor block
*** our goal was to keep our builds relatively simple/basic as we are not trying to squeeze every last hp and we want to maintain reliability as we often go into the trails. pump 87 or 89 would be ideal however we may have to use 91 or 94 in the summer months (87 is roughly $1.40/L or about $5.40/G!). we are also basically at sea level.
moving on to the build details...
playing with the stroker calculator, we've come up with the following:
4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
4.0L 6.125" rods
Keith Black UEM-IC944-030 pistons (21.7 dome)
stock 99 cam (Intake 253.3/Lobe 107.3)
Ported HO cylinder head (58cc)
block deck 0.0215
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
this yields a SCR 9.24, DCR 7.98, Quench .0645
in another thread it was mentioned the later stock cam intake was actually 256 duration, which would drop the DCR to 7.92. more info on the heads below.
My 00 4.6:
99 block
12wt crank (10/10)
kb 944 .030 pistons
4.0 shot peened rods
clevite cam, crank, rod bearings
Rollmaster dual timing set
stock 99 cam
99 intake w/ true 60mm tb
7120 head conversion. stock. (plan to do slight p&p)
Victor Reinz gasket kits (w/ .043 mls hg)
Buddies 98 4.6:
99 block
4wt short nose crank (10/10)
kb944 .030 pistons
4.0 shot peened rods
clevite cam, crank, rod bearings
Rollmaster dual timing set
stock 99 cam
99 intake w/ true 60mm tb
0630 head conversion. stock. (plan to do slight p&p)
Victor Reinz gasket kits (w/ .043 mls hg)
Yesterday i dropped our heads off at the machinist. they were disassembled to make inspecting them easier and we plan to do a basic p&p following the Standard Abrasives guide. stock valve train will be reinstalled as we are thinking of sticking with the stock cam. the magnum ss valves are being consider (2.02/1.62) but we are on the fence. the heads were original and im assuming they would be only needing to take off 3-5 thousandths meaning it could reduce the CC to 56 roughly, increasing the SCR to 9.4 and DCR to 8.07/8.13 levels... some consider this on the borderline with avoiding pinging.
both donor blocks will be dropped off within a week after completing the last bit of tear down. still need to pull the pan/crank/rods/pistons. ideally id like to deck the blocks some to tighten the quench however the DCR is already on the thresh hold imo.
we are also considering a mild performance if we can retain stock valve springs to keep the cost/simplicity down. we rarely take it past 4000rpms to peak power or hp isnt a priority. the Comp 68-201-4 is being considered as its on the limits of the stock valve springs, helps the most in the rpm range we use, and improved the DCR slightly.
we've got our larger injectors (forgot the #'s at the moment) and plan on doing some fine tuning with an SAFC. my recent previous job was working at performance tuning shop which included dyno tuning - ill likely strap it on for logging/tuning.
im planning on building a 2.5" front pipe with flex section and purchasing a mud frog 2.5" cat back system
ill be posting pics through the builds
(thats a movie quote if anyone knows their late 90's movies)
im happy to report that after months of researching, posting, collecting parts (used & new!), ect... the stroker builds are taking the next big jump - machine shop time!
ive made reference to this in some of my initial posts on the forum, but a friend and i are building near identical 4.6 strokers for our lifted XJ's. my initial stroker plan was for my lifted 95 XJ however i bought a stock 00 XJ and swapped all my lift parts, bumpers, tires, ect over. i also picked up a spare 99 long block which i will be using for my stroker build. the 95 xj was converted back to stock and sold. my friend has a 98 XJ and is also using a 99 donor block
*** our goal was to keep our builds relatively simple/basic as we are not trying to squeeze every last hp and we want to maintain reliability as we often go into the trails. pump 87 or 89 would be ideal however we may have to use 91 or 94 in the summer months (87 is roughly $1.40/L or about $5.40/G!). we are also basically at sea level.
moving on to the build details...
playing with the stroker calculator, we've come up with the following:
4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
4.0L 6.125" rods
Keith Black UEM-IC944-030 pistons (21.7 dome)
stock 99 cam (Intake 253.3/Lobe 107.3)
Ported HO cylinder head (58cc)
block deck 0.0215
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
this yields a SCR 9.24, DCR 7.98, Quench .0645
in another thread it was mentioned the later stock cam intake was actually 256 duration, which would drop the DCR to 7.92. more info on the heads below.
My 00 4.6:
99 block
12wt crank (10/10)
kb 944 .030 pistons
4.0 shot peened rods
clevite cam, crank, rod bearings
Rollmaster dual timing set
stock 99 cam
99 intake w/ true 60mm tb
7120 head conversion. stock. (plan to do slight p&p)
Victor Reinz gasket kits (w/ .043 mls hg)
Buddies 98 4.6:
99 block
4wt short nose crank (10/10)
kb944 .030 pistons
4.0 shot peened rods
clevite cam, crank, rod bearings
Rollmaster dual timing set
stock 99 cam
99 intake w/ true 60mm tb
0630 head conversion. stock. (plan to do slight p&p)
Victor Reinz gasket kits (w/ .043 mls hg)
Yesterday i dropped our heads off at the machinist. they were disassembled to make inspecting them easier and we plan to do a basic p&p following the Standard Abrasives guide. stock valve train will be reinstalled as we are thinking of sticking with the stock cam. the magnum ss valves are being consider (2.02/1.62) but we are on the fence. the heads were original and im assuming they would be only needing to take off 3-5 thousandths meaning it could reduce the CC to 56 roughly, increasing the SCR to 9.4 and DCR to 8.07/8.13 levels... some consider this on the borderline with avoiding pinging.
both donor blocks will be dropped off within a week after completing the last bit of tear down. still need to pull the pan/crank/rods/pistons. ideally id like to deck the blocks some to tighten the quench however the DCR is already on the thresh hold imo.
we are also considering a mild performance if we can retain stock valve springs to keep the cost/simplicity down. we rarely take it past 4000rpms to peak power or hp isnt a priority. the Comp 68-201-4 is being considered as its on the limits of the stock valve springs, helps the most in the rpm range we use, and improved the DCR slightly.
we've got our larger injectors (forgot the #'s at the moment) and plan on doing some fine tuning with an SAFC. my recent previous job was working at performance tuning shop which included dyno tuning - ill likely strap it on for logging/tuning.
im planning on building a 2.5" front pipe with flex section and purchasing a mud frog 2.5" cat back system
ill be posting pics through the builds
- Antifreeze2
- Donator
- Posts: 112
- Joined: October 15th, 2011, 6:33 pm
- Stroker Displacement: 280 ci
- Vehicle Year: 1997
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Wrangler
- Location: Central Illinois
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
Contact: 1st rule of government spending.
- IH 392
- I love JeepStrokers.com!!
- Posts: 725
- Joined: October 4th, 2008, 11:15 am
- Location: Eugene ORYGUN
- Contact:
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
Yep, billionaire industrialist S. R. HaddenAntifreeze2 wrote:Contact: 1st rule of government spending.
You can get more power out of ANY engine!!!
ASE Master certified engine machinist, gas and diesel
ASE Master certified engine machinist, gas and diesel
-
- I made it to triple digits!
- Posts: 137
- Joined: November 27th, 2011, 9:24 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1995
- Vehicle Model: XJ
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
got the heads back after inspection... good to start the basic p&p
dropped off the blocks at the same time
Summit Ferry came last night... brought HV oil pump, reg water pump, ARP rod bolts, porting abrasives kit, and 2.5" flex for custom front pipe ill be building.
the stock cam out of my 99 block looks to be reusable, however my buddies did not. it wasnt a complete surprise as his donor motor had 300k km and lots of sludge so we're thinking a mild Comp cam upgrade is in order.
now from looking at Summit, i found the Comp 68-201-4 and CL68-201-4. the CL has lifters and has a different lift! .447/.477 which is why it probably requires upgraded valve springs. where as the Comp 68-201-4 cam only has a lift of .447/.447 and can be run on stock valve springs. is this a typo !?!
cam only
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-68-201-4/
cam lifter kit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL68-201-4/
dropped off the blocks at the same time
Summit Ferry came last night... brought HV oil pump, reg water pump, ARP rod bolts, porting abrasives kit, and 2.5" flex for custom front pipe ill be building.
the stock cam out of my 99 block looks to be reusable, however my buddies did not. it wasnt a complete surprise as his donor motor had 300k km and lots of sludge so we're thinking a mild Comp cam upgrade is in order.
now from looking at Summit, i found the Comp 68-201-4 and CL68-201-4. the CL has lifters and has a different lift! .447/.477 which is why it probably requires upgraded valve springs. where as the Comp 68-201-4 cam only has a lift of .447/.447 and can be run on stock valve springs. is this a typo !?!
cam only
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-68-201-4/
cam lifter kit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL68-201-4/
- Antifreeze2
- Donator
- Posts: 112
- Joined: October 15th, 2011, 6:33 pm
- Stroker Displacement: 280 ci
- Vehicle Year: 1997
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Wrangler
- Location: Central Illinois
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
To my understanding, stock springs are suggested for up to .430 lift, but people have run them up to .450 with success. Not sure when they bind though.
-
- I made it to triple digits!
- Posts: 137
- Joined: November 27th, 2011, 9:24 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1995
- Vehicle Model: XJ
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
upgrading valve springs and valves are a coin toss at the moment. ive found useful info on upgrades (ie: ls1 setup) however i havent been able to located 1 set (let alone 2) for a reasonable price. i did find a new kit (valves/springs/retainers/locks) but near $300. with a spring setup that i could run a hotter cam, id just be too temped to get roller rockers ... and the snowball effect continues.
- Antifreeze2
- Donator
- Posts: 112
- Joined: October 15th, 2011, 6:33 pm
- Stroker Displacement: 280 ci
- Vehicle Year: 1997
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Wrangler
- Location: Central Illinois
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
I hear ya. I planned on spending no more than 2k on mine. Pretty sure it hit 3.5k by the end of it with labor.
-
- I made it to triple digits!
- Posts: 137
- Joined: November 27th, 2011, 9:24 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1995
- Vehicle Model: XJ
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
MORE PARTS!
Victor HS5713Z head gasket set
Victor CS5713X lower gasket set
Victor GS33414 head bolt set
Roll Master CS7100 timing set
Clevite Cam, Rod, Main bearings
Hastings Moly piston rings
will be ordering the SS 2.02/1.62 magnum valves in the next couple days, and hopefully decide on a cam that will work with a stock springs! (extremely frustrating!). we decided to keep the build on budget and to keep things simple... no need for upgraded springs, rollers, ect.
the cam spring/pin combo VS solid pin have come into debate. i see Dino and lots of other members using the spring/pin with success but there have been a number of failures (maybe unrelated). ive seen only a few members (mainly Silverxj) using the solid pin with manually setting the cam play with success, and no failures to date. perhaps there is a threshold with more "extreme" cam/valve spring combo's that is too much for the spring/pin to handle...
Victor HS5713Z head gasket set
Victor CS5713X lower gasket set
Victor GS33414 head bolt set
Roll Master CS7100 timing set
Clevite Cam, Rod, Main bearings
Hastings Moly piston rings
will be ordering the SS 2.02/1.62 magnum valves in the next couple days, and hopefully decide on a cam that will work with a stock springs! (extremely frustrating!). we decided to keep the build on budget and to keep things simple... no need for upgraded springs, rollers, ect.
the cam spring/pin combo VS solid pin have come into debate. i see Dino and lots of other members using the spring/pin with success but there have been a number of failures (maybe unrelated). ive seen only a few members (mainly Silverxj) using the solid pin with manually setting the cam play with success, and no failures to date. perhaps there is a threshold with more "extreme" cam/valve spring combo's that is too much for the spring/pin to handle...
-
- Donator
- Posts: 30
- Joined: December 7th, 2008, 6:57 am
- Stroker Displacement: 4.6L
- Vehicle Year: 1995
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Grand Cher
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
While there is no proof of a problem, Clevite in there infinite wisdom removed the oiling hole in their rod bearings. Federal Mogul still has these holes and are of good quality as well. I wanted those holes on my build. And I didn't want to add the holes myself on the Clevites as some have done. So I used Clevite Main and Cam bearings, and the Federal Mogul for Rods.604rail_king wrote:MORE PARTS!
Clevite Cam, Rod, Main bearings
Best wishes on your builds.
-
- I made it to triple digits!
- Posts: 137
- Joined: November 27th, 2011, 9:24 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1995
- Vehicle Model: XJ
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
yes ive seen that with the clevite rod bearings in other threads. ill probably end up adding them as i see no down side to adding the hole
- SilverXJ
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 5790
- Joined: February 14th, 2008, 7:14 am
- Stroker Displacement: 4.6L
- Vehicle Year: 2000
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Cherokee
- Location: Radford, Va
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
There a few others using it. It actually wasn't my idea, but i believe DWG's as he is using it on his TJ. Dino is also using a stock cam, so that may have some bearing on it.604rail_king wrote:the cam spring/pin combo VS solid pin have come into debate. i see Dino and lots of other members using the spring/pin with success but there have been a number of failures (maybe unrelated). ive seen only a few members (mainly Silverxj) using the solid pin with manually setting the cam play with success, and no failures to date. perhaps there is a threshold with more "extreme" cam/valve spring combo's that is too much for the spring/pin to handle...
2000 XJ. 4.6L stroker
00+ Viper Coil Swap | CPS Timing Increase Mod | Fabricated Airbox | Dash bezel, Arduino Multigauge & RD Conceal
Eat, breath, drink, sleep, Jeep, drink
00+ Viper Coil Swap | CPS Timing Increase Mod | Fabricated Airbox | Dash bezel, Arduino Multigauge & RD Conceal
Eat, breath, drink, sleep, Jeep, drink
-
- I made it to triple digits!
- Posts: 137
- Joined: November 27th, 2011, 9:24 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1995
- Vehicle Model: XJ
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
Possibly. Your builds are the most recent in my opinion but you're also very active with posting
I'm really inclined to getting a new 91-95 early stock cam (melling or sealed power) as I don't really want to deal with coil bind possibilities and the power will be in the rpm range I stay in 90% of the time. I just realized the stock cam is showing -8 degrees in the stroker calc (?).
only the 200 and 201 comp cams fit my build nicely in the stroker calculator as I'm aiming 8.0-8.15 dcr. Summit lists I need springs though. The stock cam if I use 0 degrees will yield about 7.45 dcr OR look at zero decking the block to get closer to my goal.
I'm really inclined to getting a new 91-95 early stock cam (melling or sealed power) as I don't really want to deal with coil bind possibilities and the power will be in the rpm range I stay in 90% of the time. I just realized the stock cam is showing -8 degrees in the stroker calc (?).
only the 200 and 201 comp cams fit my build nicely in the stroker calculator as I'm aiming 8.0-8.15 dcr. Summit lists I need springs though. The stock cam if I use 0 degrees will yield about 7.45 dcr OR look at zero decking the block to get closer to my goal.
-
- Movin on up ^
- Posts: 307
- Joined: November 23rd, 2011, 10:40 pm
- Stroker Displacement: 4.6
- Vehicle Year: 2001
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Cherokee
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
I went with a Crower 44243 cam and stock springs. It's a mild upgrade over stock that will work with the stock springs liftwise. I only have a few hundred miles on my 4.6 so far,but it seems to rev ok. Still too early to tell.604rail_king wrote: hopefully decide on a cam that will work with a stock springs! (extremely frustrating!). we decided to keep the build on budget and to keep things simple... no need for upgraded springs, rollers, ect.
the cam spring/pin combo VS solid pin have come into debate. \
There was a good article on one of the trade sites ... Think it was enginebuildermag.com about cam/lifter orientation on the old Buick Nailheads (pre 1966) that mentioned cam preload... some cams are designed with neutral fore/aft load while others are designed to use rearward thrust... it's all in the cam design. Bottom line, it may be best to use the solid pin on our Jeeps to keep the fore/aft cam movement in control.
Walt K
Eastern Pa
2001 Cherokee 4.6 stroker 90 day build
Buick GS's and Saab turbos for other days...
Eastern Pa
2001 Cherokee 4.6 stroker 90 day build
Buick GS's and Saab turbos for other days...
-
- I made it to triple digits!
- Posts: 137
- Joined: November 27th, 2011, 9:24 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1995
- Vehicle Model: XJ
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
I'm leaning towards the solid pin with having cam free play set.
In an attempt to determine what can to run, I emailed Comp for a suggestion that could be run on stock springs. I got the following cam card back for a custom grind.
Thoughts?
SERIAL # R 2864-09 SPEC CARD # 16732909
PART # 163-000-5 CAMSHAFT, CHRYSLER/JEEP 1999-2001 4.0 L
CORE C163-4 CAMSHAFT BLANK, A6 CHRY-JEEP 1999-2001 Special Grind
GRIND # CAMSH 5206 /5205 H 113.0
DURATION @ .050 INTAKE 206 ROCKER ARM RATIO
VALVE ADJ INTAKE .000 DURATION @ .050 EXHAUST 212 INTAKE 1.60
VALVE ADJ EXHAUST .000 LOBE LIFT INTAKE .2720 EXHAUST 1.60
VALVE LIFT INTAKE .435 LOBE LIFT EXHAUST .2800
VALVE LIFT EXHAUST .448 LOBE SEPARATION 113.0
DURATION .006 INTAKE C/L 110.0
TAPPET LIFT INTAKE 255 CAM ADVANCE 3
TAPPET LIFT EXHAUST 263 HYDRAULIC Y
VALVE TIMING .050 OVERHEAD CAM N
VALVE OPEN INTAKE 7- JOURNAL DIAMETER STD 2.000
VALVE OPEN EXHAUST 42 RECOMMEND VALVE SPRINGS
VALVE CLOSED INTAKE 33
VALVE CLOSED EXHAUST 10-
Based on the custom cam valve lift, the 200 or 201 off the shelf cams would work too.
In an attempt to determine what can to run, I emailed Comp for a suggestion that could be run on stock springs. I got the following cam card back for a custom grind.
Thoughts?
SERIAL # R 2864-09 SPEC CARD # 16732909
PART # 163-000-5 CAMSHAFT, CHRYSLER/JEEP 1999-2001 4.0 L
CORE C163-4 CAMSHAFT BLANK, A6 CHRY-JEEP 1999-2001 Special Grind
GRIND # CAMSH 5206 /5205 H 113.0
DURATION @ .050 INTAKE 206 ROCKER ARM RATIO
VALVE ADJ INTAKE .000 DURATION @ .050 EXHAUST 212 INTAKE 1.60
VALVE ADJ EXHAUST .000 LOBE LIFT INTAKE .2720 EXHAUST 1.60
VALVE LIFT INTAKE .435 LOBE LIFT EXHAUST .2800
VALVE LIFT EXHAUST .448 LOBE SEPARATION 113.0
DURATION .006 INTAKE C/L 110.0
TAPPET LIFT INTAKE 255 CAM ADVANCE 3
TAPPET LIFT EXHAUST 263 HYDRAULIC Y
VALVE TIMING .050 OVERHEAD CAM N
VALVE OPEN INTAKE 7- JOURNAL DIAMETER STD 2.000
VALVE OPEN EXHAUST 42 RECOMMEND VALVE SPRINGS
VALVE CLOSED INTAKE 33
VALVE CLOSED EXHAUST 10-
Based on the custom cam valve lift, the 200 or 201 off the shelf cams would work too.
-
- I made it to triple digits!
- Posts: 137
- Joined: November 27th, 2011, 9:24 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1995
- Vehicle Model: XJ
Re: 604's double 4.6 build
ordered 2.02/1.62 SS magnum valves and Comp 201 cam/lifter kit. should look all pretty with the Rollmaster timing set. i got side tracked with re-outfitting my garage with new warehouse pallet racking, and buying a 8.25 with locker.
where can i order a solid pin/bolt set?
talked to machine shop today, blocks are going up next for bore/hone/ect. crank has been machined. rods/pistons/arp have been installed, balanced, and shot peened. ill still likely need to order new push rods
i quickly threw on a new spare felpro exhaust/intake gasket to the heads to see how much porting work is ahead of me. the intake ports are almost a dead match. exhaust can be opened up a decent amount. ill see how it compares to the Victor gasket
after porting and final decking, we're expecting to end up on route with 9.45 scr, 8.05 dcr, .053 quench
where can i order a solid pin/bolt set?
talked to machine shop today, blocks are going up next for bore/hone/ect. crank has been machined. rods/pistons/arp have been installed, balanced, and shot peened. ill still likely need to order new push rods
i quickly threw on a new spare felpro exhaust/intake gasket to the heads to see how much porting work is ahead of me. the intake ports are almost a dead match. exhaust can be opened up a decent amount. ill see how it compares to the Victor gasket
after porting and final decking, we're expecting to end up on route with 9.45 scr, 8.05 dcr, .053 quench
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests