My First stroker with ?'s

Post by **Gorillaxj** » February 4th, 2012, 10:19 am

Hello! I Have a 2000 Jeep Cherokee. 5.5" lift, 35's, 4.56's, d44's, and some other odds and ends. Has the common 0331 cracked head between cyl 3-4. I am a ASE master tech for Toyota. I know my way around an engine and how things work in basic "factory form" But get a little lost when is comes to altering an engine internals while keeping the "ideal" setup for me. The more info you can share with me the better! I have been searching but feel left needing to ask about my own setup. I am looking to build a motor the has more output the factory and squeeze as much out of it as possible while keeping the costs down for the wife lol. Reliability is my number 1. ok enough of the BS...

To start I am going to do the "poor mans" build. listed parts I have so far.

2000 XJ block. good straight and flat. (been checked)
,020" over 4.0l pistons
high volume oil pump
7120 head (checked out good, took off .010" to be sure) to replace the 0331
4.2l Crank
4.2l Rods (707, if it really matters)
Exhaust manifold off of a 96
2000 intake manifold
24lb flow tested at 43.5psi Bosch injectors (will these work well? they where recommended to me by someone locally and have been running them currently)
Mopar performance .43" head gasket

Going to order in the next week.
high flow water pump
high flow t/stat housing
Roller rockers (is stud or pedestal mounts better?)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSP-S40196/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSP-S4096/

want to order but a little confused if it will fit in my 2000 block, I have read that the cams will interchange and I have read that they will not... any one know the truth before I spend the $$????

is this a good setup? missing anything? how do i calculate quench and gains?
This 4x4 cam/chain/lifter kit - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-SK68-232-4/ For sale locally for 150$ brand new. says it fits 87-97 but was told it fits my 2000? or should I run a stock cam?

thanks for looking!

Post by **Retlaw01XJ** » February 4th, 2012, 10:49 am

Gorillaxj wrote: I have read that the cams will interchange and I have read that they will not... any one know the truth before I spend the $$????

This 4x4 cam/chain/lifter kit - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-SK68-232-4/ For sale locally for 150$ brand new. says it fits 87-97 but was told it fits my 2000? or should I run a stock cam?

The early cam will fit the late block with the right parts selection. I just did it on my 2001.
Late cams use a cam retention plate that doesn't fit the earlier cams.... Therefore you have to use the early timing set and buy the drilled bolt, pin and spring from your local Mopar dealer.

It's your call if you want the extra performance of the hotter cam! You'll need better valve springs too. It'll cost a few bucks for the upgrades.
I question whether roller rockers necessary for a budget build. Curious what the experienced guys think....

Post by **Gorillaxj** » February 4th, 2012, 11:34 am

Retlaw01XJ wrote:
Gorillaxj wrote: I have read that the cams will interchange and I have read that they will not... any one know the truth before I spend the $$????

This 4x4 cam/chain/lifter kit - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-SK68-232-4/ For sale locally for 150$ brand new. says it fits 87-97 but was told it fits my 2000? or should I run a stock cam?
The early cam will fit the late block with the right parts selection. I just did it on my 2001.
Late cams use a cam retention plate that doesn't fit the earlier cams.... Therefore you have to use the early timing set and buy the drilled bolt, pin and spring from your local Mopar dealer.

It's your call if you want the extra performance of the hotter cam! You'll need better valve springs too. It'll cost a few bucks for the upgrades.
I question whether roller rockers necessary for a budget build. Curious what the experienced guys think....

Awesome thanks for clearing that up. I want to put a cam in it, But if it was going to end up being a headache finding one. which my searching was showing so far it looked like it was going to be a pain. But I can get the pin/bolt no problem. the timing set comes with the cam so that's no biggie. thanks!

I mainly want to go with roller rockers because I rebuilt my motor a while ago and they where worn pretty good, replaced them with new rockers (factory style) and when I was looking at my cracked head I notices the rockers have wear again... More for peace of mind then anything else, but still interested to see what the general consensus is...

Post by **Retlaw01XJ** » February 4th, 2012, 6:34 pm

Just plan on having the head cut to fit the necessary valve springs.... cutting the seat deeper, or having the boss cut to a smaller I.D. Beehive springs appear to be an affordable choice.
Injectors.... Our Jeeps run at 49 psi, so an injector rated at 24 lbs @ the usual 43.5 psi would be too rich when run at 49 psi.... it may be flowing near 27 lbs.
I'll be trying a few different injectors when I get my 4.6 finished in the near future....

Post by **Cheromaniac** » February 5th, 2012, 7:57 am

Gorillaxj wrote: This 4x4 cam/chain/lifter kit - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-SK68-232-4/ For sale locally for 150$ brand new. says it fits 87-97 but was told it fits my 2000? or should I run a stock cam?

The '00 stock cam will give you plenty of torque at low/medium rpm but you'll find it begins to nose down soon after 4000rpm. The CompCams 68-232-4 will still give you very good low rev torque but you'll have more higher up.
The cam/lifter/timing set kit you refer to will fit provided you have the earlier-style recessed cam bolt/spring/pin and washer.
If you use the Mopar Performance 5249464 valve springs with 4452032 retainers and 4529218 keepers (for single groove valve stems), you won't need to machine the spring seats on the head.
Finally the Harland Sharp pedestal-mount rockers will do fine. Go to the "Stroker Parts List" thread in the FAQs section to find the links to the relevant parts sources.

Post by **Gorillaxj** » February 5th, 2012, 12:22 pm

Awsome! thanks for the info and thread to look at, I had seen it before but your response cleared up some things for me. ordered

high volume Oil pump: Summit Racing
Cam bolt, pin & spring: Hesco
Cam bolt washer: Hesco
Harmonic balancer spacer: Hesco
Pushrods: stock 4.0 Hesco
High flow thermostat housing: Hesco

One question I haven't seen answered (sorry new site learning to navigate) When putting the 7120 head on my 2000 block, I want to order head bolts for a 91-96 head correct? or should I order them for a 2000?

I am ordering the rest of the stuff once my tax return hits my account

Thanks for the patience and help!

Post by **Dezertxj88** » February 6th, 2012, 12:21 pm

Just to help you out, I was looking at a similar cam option for my motor when the stocker kicked the bucket. My motors just a stock rebuild with a shaved head..I was deciding between the 96+ dual pattern or the Comp 68-200-4. I ended up with the comp 68-201-4 which offers slightly more top end compared to the 96+ or comp 68-200-4 and I'm using it with stock valve springs with no issues 102k and counting.
NOTE: the specs in the compression ratio calculator are NOT correct for the 96+ dual pattern cam, they are off slightly. Dino has them listed on his website however. Just look up jeep 4.0 tech specs.
Correct specs
Advertised duration int./exh.: 256.0/260.0 deg
Duration @ 0.050" lift int./exh.: 188.0/192.0 deg
Valve lift int./exh.: 0.408"/0.414"
Lobe separation angle: 107 deg
Intake centerline angle: 114 deg
Valve overlap (advertised): 43 deg
IVO: 20 deg ATDC (0.050" lift)
IVC: 28 deg ABDC
EVO: 16 deg BBDC
EVC: 4 deg BTDC

The Comp 68-200-4 will offer more down low and through the mid range and the same up top. It didn't fall off any earlier according to the virtualengine2000 dyno I used. It can be run with stock stock valve springs as well. The comp 68-201-4 is slightly better, it offers great low end, good mid range and some more up top compared to the comp 200 or 96+ cam.
I choose it over the comp 200 & 96+ dual pattern cam because I like to take my jeep to up to 5300rpm limiter and felt a little extra power up top would be nice! I got the Comp 68-201-4 and lifters for $179 from summitracing, while a factory 96 dual pattern cam was 120 by itself..
If you planning on running the 96+ dual pattern, I would deffinetly choose the Comp 68-201-4 over it. No extra cost and for under 200 you get a cam and lifters, that offer better performance.
The comp 201 isn't recommended to be run with stock springs because it exceeds the .430" of lift @ .050". But I take my jeep to 5000rpm often and haven't had a single issue, it runs on 87oct just fine. Its my daily driver, it starts normal, drives normal, seems to rev up faster..its a 100% OEM rebuild, minus the cam and shaving the head. Its got 102K since it was rebuild, and it gets better mileage now than before.

Edit: Theres a Clevite cam listed on the cam spread sheet page that I was interested but couldn't find it anywhere when rebuilding my motor. It was the Clevite replacement cam with 208* duration and .420" lift at .050". Maybe someone knows how to get ahold of it? That seems like a hot rod replacement cam that can be used with stock springs!

Post by **Gorillaxj** » February 7th, 2012, 9:35 am

^nice!

So I picked up the Comp Cams kit with the 68-232-4 cam, Comp Cams timing set, and lifters. 140$ locally. Just hoping to open it up a little for canyon pulls, and when I am loaded with gear headed for the trail....

After reading on this site about roller rockers and the sort, I decided to not use them. I am going to go with /Hesco Inc's performance set since I have to buy a new set anyway. http://www.hescosc.com/shop.asp?action= ... catId=7758

after looking at both head bolt kits for 97+ and 91-96 they seam to be the same other then the 97+ has 2 of the shorter bolts with studs on top rather then just a regular bolt... Since I am saving on not going with the roller rockers I am going to just buy a head stud kit. http://www.hescosc.com/shop.asp?action= ... catId=7758

Dropped the crank and rods off today to be reconditioned and order bearings.

Post by **SilverXJ** » February 7th, 2012, 10:31 am

No reason to use head studs. In fact since you have an XJ they make it a pain in the ass to pull the head with the engine in the XJ. You can try to remove the stud while the head is on and in the bay.

Post by **Gorillaxj** » February 7th, 2012, 10:39 am

Didn't think about that. So should I just get head bolts for a 2000? anything else I am over thinking or forgetting?

Post by **Gorillaxj** » February 7th, 2012, 11:35 am

after using 3-4 compression calculators it looks as though will be at 10.1-1 cr. Will i still be able to run 85 pump gas at my altitude range? 4000-10,000 feet.

Post by **SilverXJ** » February 7th, 2012, 5:03 pm

I don't know about the CR vs. octane, but what you want to look at is the dynamic compression ration, not the static. Use the head bolts for the 2000.

Post by **Gorillaxj** » February 7th, 2012, 8:51 pm

Ok, thanks. I have tried a few and all list static. No others I have found calculate dynamic or ask for any cam specs... the one on this site doesn't work for me. I guess I'll try and track one down. Is there a chart for what octane is good for "X" compression at "Y" altitude? search didn't provide any answers. Sorry I normally find anything I need But have been coming up blank lately....

Post by **Gorillaxj** » February 7th, 2012, 9:19 pm

OK, with 2 different calculators, one gave me a dynamic compression ratio of 9.01-1 and the other 8.8-1 one asked for altitude, the other did not. 9-1 is still pretty low so I am assuming I can run 85 on this?

Post by **Gorillaxj** » February 12th, 2012, 9:00 am

OK, after doing a lot more research in the FAQ's and Google, I have found that I want to keep my DCR about 8-1. the stock 4.0L is 8.45-1.

octane premium. Above 9.0:1 DCR, it's almost always ping city for pump fuel. For reference, the stock 4.0L has an 8.7:1 static ratio and a calculated 8.45:1 dynamic ratio. Read more: http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles ... z1mBZTC5mV

So I will have a SCR of 9.69-1 DCR will be 8.33-1 which I just below stock. So Using this logic I should be good to run regular correct? or should I side with caution and run mid-grade? I have always ran premium when off-road and going to high altitudes (8000+ft) but I hope its not "needed" for all use. just want to be sure everything is in order.

SCR 9.69-1
DCR 8.33-1
Quench 0.0725

My First stroker with ?'s

My First stroker with ?'s

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