Starting issue

[FOXxX]

Alright - I have a 94 HO 4.6 L stroker. I have about 250 miles on it so far and seems to be running good - Once cranked it stays running smooth. The problem is getting the SOB cranked. I usually can get it cranked on about the third try but sometimes it takes 5 mins to get started. I've indexed the distro using the website, I've replaced the CPS, I've got good spark (I guess), checked the fuel pressure- A OK - Changed the battery. I'm running out of ideas. When it does NOT crank on the 2nd or 3rd try thats when it acts up and doesnt start for 5 mins or so. All the while the engine sounds like it wants to catch (soft lopes) but sputters out. The trick I use to get it to crank on the early tries is as soon as I let off the starter I open up the throttle and it comes to life. I've indexed this thing at least 12 times - even removed the valve cover to make sure I am seated on both in and out valves (TDC). Can someone tell me whats going on?

SPECs
KB 944
68-231-4 CC
Harland Sharp RR's
62mm TB & Spacer
Adj MAP
24lb injects

Thankf for looking!
FOXxX

[FOXxX]

Ok maybe I am setting my fuel too high - For this setup I have read that my voltage reading while the ignition is on but not running should read 5.05 volts. Is this too high?should I be setting lower? What is your initial setting?

[SilverXJ]

What are you setting?

[FOXxX]

initial setting for the MAP Sensor (adjustable). I have it set to 5.05 right now. I'm using the rusty's performance kit with the 62mm TB. Should I be going with a larger TB?

[SilverXJ]

No going to a larger throttle body will do nothing positive. Remove the adjustable map sensor and see what that does.

[FOXxX]

If I remove the MAP will I run too lean? Do I really need the Adj. MAP and is that a normoal config for this engine?

[SilverXJ]

How do you know what its doing now? It could be running rich or running lean currently.

[FOXxX]

How do you know what its doing now? It could be running rich or running lean currently.

I guess this is the problem I am having - I dont really know how to tell at the moment. I can buy an air/fuel ratio meter if that is the best way to go. What else can I use? OBD1 setup.

[gradon]

I'm with Chris on this: Remove the adjustable map and use the stock one to eliminate a potential issue you added to the equation. The stock one and pcm will compensate enough to start and drive normal. Get yourself a wideband o2 sensor w/ meter and then see what afrs you get when you WOT all the way up to redline. You want to shoot for 12.5-12.8:1 for best power in NA apps. You will not likely go over 6V unless your injectors are too small and .1V increments change the injector pulse more than you think. Or you could pay a shop to do 3 pulls on their dyno($75-150) with their wideband o2 or exhaust temp probe stuck in the tailpipe and tweak the adjustable map between pulls and hopefully see better power curves and exactly what a certain increment did to help(or worsen, lol).

[SilverXJ]

A wideband is never a bad idea. However, I would remove the MAP adjuster and reset the PCM to start with. It could be running rich on startup considering it is in open loop on start and relying heavily on MAP sensor input.

What injectors are you running? I know you said 24lb but that doesn't say much. Part number?

[FOXxX]

Sorry it took me awhile to get back to this issue. I was out of town...

So I took the MAP sensor off and it cranked right up - well on the 2nd kick but thats almost normal. I measured the voltage input for stock and it measured 4.16V at the MAP sensor. Now that I have it off I feel very uncomfortable about maybe running too lean. So I threw the adjustor back on and brought the voltage down from the 5.05V as stated earlier to a 4.20V setting. I let it sit overnight and get cold to see how morning cranking will act. I dont live in an area that has the type of shops that many of you have access to so hitting up a dyno is at least 3 hrs away. I looked up emissions and same problem. Either way I will be spending some bucks to get the results I need. I suppose I need to get the Wideband. Do I need to change out my O2 sensor for the WB setup? I have the two wire O2 right now.

Also the part number on the injectors: Ford Denso F55E-A2E (they have the bluish-green top).

[SilverXJ]

You don't have to remove the stock sensor. Some WB setups have a wire to feed the stock wiring harness so you can replace the stock one with the WB. But I wouldn't even mess with that. Leave the stock one in place and have another bung welded in.

[BADASYJ]

You don't need to worry about running lean without the adj. MAP sensor. It may not be the exact perfect AFR but it would only be off by a minor amount. Your CPU will compensate enough for you to ride around without it. I have a 4.7 with 24# ford inj. and no adj. MAP and I have not had an issue. (Knock on wood) Not a DD but many wide open throttle passes and hours of crawling around on trails. I do admit I have never had a wideband to check it but by reading the plugs and performance it is right on.

When you try to start it and it dosen't crank over turn the ignition off before trying again. Also have you tried holding the throttle wide open when cranking the motor? Make sure you let off as soon as it catches!!!!! High revs and no oil pressure are no good. Is the starting issue the only prob or does it stall out every now and then after starting?

[FOXxX]

So I took the adj. MAP off because it didn't seem to like even the slightest voltage change. I've run it pretty good without the adj. MAP on it but still seems to give me the fits when I crank it. Its doing the same thing again - turn turn turn - sounds like it sputters - turn turn turn - nothing - ... few more tries and finally catches and comes on no problems. No it seems like I'm back to square one.

When you try to start it and it dosen't crank over turn the ignition off before trying again. Also have you tried holding the throttle wide open when cranking the motor? Make sure you let off as soon as it catches!!!!! High revs and no oil pressure are no good. Is the starting issue the only prob or does it stall out every now and then after starting?

I do the turn ignition off and back on occasionally - my theory was to make the fuel pump push fluid for that second. I relieved my suspicion of a failing fuel pump with a pressure checker at all throttle ranges... great pressure. Pressure regulator was replaced due to a leaking problem. Getting fuel to the injectors - no issues. I've tried the WOT thing and something about that just doesn't seem right. It should just crank on its own. I don't like the work-arounds. But yes this seems to be the only problem I have.

I really do not want to buy a AFR gauge for this one and only time I need one. I just can't justify the cost. I keep thinking this is still the break-in issues (btw only 350 miles on engine) but they dont seem to be leveling out.

Maybe going back to the stock injectors will work? Anyone have any complaints with that one?

[FOXxX]

So I've been doing some digging around on the forums and this is what I have come up with and maybe you guys can help me put the pieces together.

Before I removed the adj MAP I noticed that my engine would become a little hotter than usual. At idle it would climb alllllmost to the red but when moving again would cool off a bit but would always stay on the right side of the temp gauge and never come down from there. So I spent money and got the Electric fan mod thinking the mech fan was putting strain and not enough air. Well that only helped a little. Not too much. So silver recommended removing the adj MAP. Well since it has stayed cooler than usual. Needle staying to the left side.

I bought an aftermarket Stainless Steel header - No great borla or magnaflo but the no name cheapo. On break-in the headers GLOWED! Kinda scary but was quickly relieved when I read on here that it is normal. Tonight after a 20 min drive from town back home at normal cruisin speed and then 5 mins on puttin around I stopped in the driveway and looked at the headers and they were glowing - Not enough to shine but you could definately tell they were hot. Suspicion kicked in the whole lean thing again because of the other "Great Glowing Headers" post saying the exhaust temps that reach approx 900 deg will make them glow - I thought I also read that I would like to have my temps around 6 and 700 deg for normal operating temps. Funny thing is that my temp gauge (I know it is coolant temp) was on the cooler side of the needle.

Two months ago I was talking with my engine guy and he saw my idle at around 600 RPMs. Said it was idling too low for the initial break in period and would like to see about a grand for idling until break in was finished. So what did I do? On the aftermarket TB is the set-screw adjuster thingy under the throttle arm. I cranked the engine and turned the screw til it said 1K on the tach. well since it has settled back in at about 800 rpm and I haven't adjusted it back. Maybe the extra degrees on the butterfly is causing the leak that O3GC had in that post. I will try to correct that before matters get worse.

This is all I have. Anyone have any other comments as to what I may be doing wrong?