sudo chop's 4.6

[sudo chop]

Thought I should make a little build thread, just to organize things a bit.

I bought a 98 Cherokee with like 260k, back in June, knowing it was on its last leg. I bought it solely for the purpose of stroking. Te radiator had a baseball sized hole in the plastic tank, and it made a bit of a knocking sound, but I thought I could probably limp it home, as the test drive went surprisingly well. It did not make it home. It blew up about a mile from the guy's place and he was nice enough to have it towed to my apartment and gave me back $500. So, total investment was $1200 for a blown up late model Cherokee, not the worst deal.



So, I yanked the head off and found a big hole in the no. 1 piston, along with some impossible sludge. It almost felt like there was gravel in there, and there may have been, I found some sticks in the water jacket...



Unfortunately when I got the block to the machine shop, my guy found a crack in the block before I even got it off the truck. Probably why the previous owner had so much RTV around the water pump. So I grabbed another whole engine from the pull apart for $190 with the warranty, which was a minor extra expenditure, but, what else ya gonna do?

So I began planning and after lots of flip flopping around and looking for parts I settled on these build plans:

5477 4cwt Crank
Short rods
H802CP with the sealed power moly rings +.040
zero deck
CompCams 68-239-4 Kit
Mopar valve springs and retainers
spin balanced rotating assembly
Ford motorsports 24lb/hr injectors
99+ Intake manifold
APN header
Spray ceramic coating on header and relevant portions of intake manifold, including the gasket mating surface to prevent heat soak from the head (hopefully)
Victor .043 Head gasket
Leigh Performance 64mm TB
Notch block where CC is overlapped by block
Trend pushrods

The DCR on this is like 8.7:1 Pretty high, I know. I hope running mid-grade or even premium along with hopefully drastically lower intake charge temp I will not have any problems with pinging.

It took a long time to figure out what I wanted to do exactly, and has taken much longer to complete than I originally hoped.

Progress so far:

The short block is almost done. I still have to cut the bracket for the timing chain guide, and get the cover on. Then I need to put the Oil pump on and get the pan on. Then that will all be done with.

Just couple of pics with the head on during paint:



Updates should be coming soon!

[sudo chop]

Well, I got the Oil Pump, timing cover, and head on today. I used the pushrod length checker I bought to measure that, and I got about 9.525-9.550 plus like .050 for preload so I guess I am going to try and get some pushrods in about 9.575. I no shit measured 9.525 with 0 lash, but 9.550 felt more solid, but thats probably only because it started compressing the lifter, I think i'm good with 9.575. It does seem like its too much shorter though, the stock ones are a whole .065 longer. I guess we'll see.

So now I am ordering 9.575 pushrods, APN header, and Techline ceramic coating. I also have to contact Leigh Performance about a 64mm throttle body, particularly about the time its gonna take.

[gradon]

Jeff is pretty quick on turning those tbs around-- my M3 TB was back in a week. It can be even faster if you buy one he already bored and send yours in as a core(make sure to ask for a 96+tb w/ the MAP port).

[sudo chop]

Jeff is pretty quick on turning those tbs around-- my M3 TB was back in a week. It can be even faster if you buy one he already bored and send yours in as a core(make sure to ask for a 96+tb w/ the MAP port).

Yea he emailed me back a little bit ago, he said he doesn't have a 64mm in stock, so I'll have to send him mine. He said he could turn it around in a week, very cool.

[sudo chop]

Made some more assembly progress today, just have to get the APN header in and coat it along with the Intake mani and throw those on...



I am having some weird resistance getting the oil pan on. Idk if it is that little baffle or whatever it is right in the middle of the pan maybe hitting the raised girdle, but something is definitely hitting in that area, i can't tell for sure what. Anybody else have trouble like that?

[dwg86]

Yes, my pan hit the main girdle in the middle and in the front. If you are using a high volume oil pump, that will hit the pan also. Use a hammer to "clearance" the oil pan.

[gradon]

I have the girdle and HV pump and needless to say, my pan doesn't get any brownie points for looking good.

[SilverXJ]

Why are you going with a 64mm? 62 or 63 is more than enough.

My oil pan is ugly too. I had to clearance it for the HV oil pump, which was minor and the girdle... which took quite a bit banging. Wear ear protection when doing that unless you like ringing.

Another idea is to leave the girdle on and spaced out with washers for correct clearance. Then heat the pan while tightening it down with its bolts until it is flush with the block. Leave the gasket off when doing this and you will have plenty of clearance. You will have to get the pan quite hot. Propane won't be enough. Mapp gas might be, but your best bet is oxy acetylene. This isn't my idea though. Someone else on here did it, but I can't remember whom.

[sudo chop]

Thanks guys, good to know I'm not the only one, I'll try the hammer I guess, good idea about heating it up though.

I guess I wanted 64mm just because I didn't want to risk it being the bottleneck. According to Four-Stroke Performance Tuning a 62mm TB is good for up to 260, and not to sound too optimistic with my estimates, but the DD2003 is saying I should see 270bhp. I know its not a good estimator like that, but I'd hate to think that I am choking it. It doesn't seem like a big deal to get a 64. Why not, ya know? I mean sure I know the throttle control get a little harder, but that doesn't seem like a big deal either. It's still up in the air though.

[amcinstaller]

it seems to me that the general consensus is that the bottleneck is actually the ports themselves rather than the valves or intake track. but i could be wrong im not expert by any means i just read alot

[SilverXJ]

it seems to me that the general consensus is that the bottleneck is actually the ports themselves rather than the valves or intake track. but i could be wrong im not expert by any means i just read alot

x2. Hesco doesn't recommend larger valves due to flow restrictions in the head. A 64mm tb may just make your throttle response too touchy. I have a 63mm and its touchy enough.

[sudo chop]

it seems to me that the general consensus is that the bottleneck is actually the ports themselves rather than the valves or intake track. but i could be wrong im not expert by any means i just read alot

x2. Hesco doesn't recommend larger valves due to flow restrictions in the head. A 64mm tb may just make your throttle response too touchy. I have a 63mm and its touchy enough.

That makes sense. I'm on board. I think then I'll just do the 62mm.

Now I just have to figure out what spark plugs are going to run best in this, and still straighten out what exhaust setup I am going to put behind the APN. I have ripped out and thrown away all the rusted together crap that was under there before, it's a clean slate. I have been considering having an exhaust shop build it all from scratch, except maybe the tail pipe if I can find one of those new for cheap. Actually it would be nice to find the cheapest solution to get 2.5" from the cat-back, since I doubt custom exhaust work is cheap.

[amcinstaller]

make good buddies with your local exhaust guy. thats what i did and he straight piped my shitbox honda for me for 80 bucks cash (not mandrel bend, but i didnt care). basicly paid the labour a few bucks for the run in 1.75 inch pipe.

[SilverXJ]

Mandrel bent would be ideal, but few local shops have a machine that can do that. I have a Gibson 2.5" exhaust cat back. Everything from the header back is 2.5" as my XJ came stock with a 2.5" down pipe. I got the Gibson exhaust because it was lightly used and cheap. I'm not too happy with the sound. The best exhaust I have heard seems to be a Magnaflow, but I don't know the pipe dimensions.

On the piper size vs performance. Back pressure is only good in an exhaust that doesn't have idea scavenging. I.e. the flow of the exhaust actually pulling exhaust from the cylinder/header.

[sudo chop]

Just got the APN in yesterday and took it straight to an exhaust shop a buddy of mine recommended. They seemed to make easy work of fitting a 3" collector on it. It looks like it was made that way. I took it home put it on with the IM without the gasket to see how well it was going to clear, and it looks like I am going to have to make just a little space b/w the 1 and 6 primaries and the 1 and 6 intake runners. I also noticed how close this new 3" collector came to touching the block, but I'm not really worried about it, since it seems so solid that it would never like, vibrate over there.



Here you can kind of see that there is only like an 1/8in b/w the collector flange and the block.




So, I am headed back over to my parent's garage (where all of this stuff is) now to try and make some proper clearance b/w the runners and the primaries. Then, I can have it sandblasted early next week and spray ceramic on it right after that and all that will be done!

I am also gonna go ahead and stick my P/S pump and A/C compressor on there since they are both completely disconnected anyway.

My trend pushrods went out yesterday, so they should be here some time next week, then I can go ahead and stitch the valvetrain up, right now I have it together with the stock pushrods, and they are quite long, its noticable how much they push the lifters down. How important is it to check the cam out with a degree wheel and all that? I don't have a dial gauge, and wouldn't I have to pump up the lifters?

I also have to put some paint on the valve cover, I am gonna try to have the ridges in it be red stripes, but idk how well that's gonna work out.