renix indexing distributor timing

Performance mods and Advanced Stroker discussion.
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laxplayermjd
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renix indexing distributor timing

Post by laxplayermjd »

ok guys i tried firing up the stroker tonight and im having hell getting the timing right. first it was in 180 out. i originally just installed it with the ears on it.

so i did it again flipping it 180, each time installed the rotor about the 5 o clock position when standing on the driver side. it would try to fire but wouldnt start.

my buddy rotoated the housing and got it running. it them was running at 2800 rpm with my foot off the gas, then after a couple of mins it started to misfire and i shut it off real quick. so we pulled it again , cut the one ear off . and still having a problem with it.

all the indexing distributor info i have shows the newer style distributor and mentions this 3cm distance or something. my harness comes out in a different spot. some places ive read put it at 4 o clock. some say put it at 5 o clock.

im using mopar 228ab cam. can anyone help me out that has a renix. all this has got to be timing issue. also it heated up the head reallly really fast
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laxplayermjd
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by laxplayermjd »

from what i can tell the timing must be right, the rotor is in the 5 oclock position. it lines up just before # 1 on the cap, unless it should be just after #1? in a clock wise direction. it seems it wont start until i rotate the housing a hair so the one cut tab would be lined up over the bolt hole.

does this appear right to everyone. maybe i have another problem lying somewhere. also i have no fuel gauge anymore, i couldve swore it worked when i park it a year ago
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by Don H Jr »

The rotor looks positioned correctly, but there is more than rotor/dist position when it comes to setting up the timing on your engine. You are not mentioning, or I missed it, setting up the 0 timing mark on the vibration dampner/pulley with the mark on the block. Also, I'm suspect of the timing gear/chain positioning under the timing cover from engine assembly. Isn't this the engine that was set advanced? Just some thoughts on the basics.

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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by Don H Jr »

When you set up TDC, number one cylinder was on compression stroke not 180 degrees out, right? That could be it.

Jr
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by Don H Jr »

Mine, and others I have seen are not lined up BEFORE number one on the cap; they are just after (clockwise) number one on the cap. I have a stretched timing chain these days after almost 300K miles, so I think mine used to be right on the money number one, but now is past a bit. Causing me problems running now and I'll replace chain/gear in June. Your engine sounds way off the mark timing wise, not just a smidgin'.

jr
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laxplayermjd
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by laxplayermjd »

i think that the timing is about right , where it is now, i guess it could be on the wrong side of number one. i think i may have an idle valve sticking now causing the high rpms, who knows if i have other issues tho.

im at tdc compression number 1 in the pic, originally i wasnt on compression and it wouldnt start, just backfire in the
intake. so i switched it around to where it is now. if i turn the housing a tiny bit clockwise it fires right up it seems
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by laxplayermjd »

and it was timed straight up cam timing, both dots lined up on the gears. and i did turn the crank to line up with the 0 on the timing cover for tdc
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by Don H Jr »

I share your frustration. Guys here like Harrel or Don Hornbroad or others may help you sort this out. I have no expertise as they do in these matters. I hope your engine isn't seizing up for some reason. It's a puzzle yet to be worked out.

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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by Don H Jr »

The thing is where the rotor points, relative to where you put your number one wire on the cap. Have you double checked wires/cap/firing order?
Did you put your finger in number one hole to feel/listen when was on number one compression stroke? I know you know all this stuff backwards and forwards probably, but gotta start somewhere.
Running at that high RPM with your foot not on throttle is a mystery also. I wonder if your Idle Air Valve is functioning properly on the TB, it lets air around the butterfly to get your idle right consistantly. They get full of crap and plug up, especially if it came off an engine with the PCV/CCV system all clogged up. Mine was plugged almost solid by the time I learned about the CCV system and how it can clog up so bad, especially on my 94 year with too small a vaccum line and fitting to intake manifold. Fixed by putting on newer model line/fitting.
TPS throttle position sensor and the MAT can also be troublesome and cause running problems but you may have something less obvious going on. The run-away rpm thing is interesting and someone here will know what is causeing that to happen.
The getting hot thing is something to get to the bottom of very early in the game. There are only so many things that can cause that to happen. I do hope you have a strong, new radiator in you Jeep as they are a piece of dukey from the factory and always cause big problems till changed or like mine: upgraded. It's a very weak point in an XJ, the radiator. It cost me a cracked head years ago and a lot of scratching of my head till I changed it out. I could open the drain and run water through it OK, but in reality it didnt' work. About 6-8 years ago I had a guy make me one up in a radiator shop and has ran perfect temps ever sense. The water temp sensor in front of block needs to be working good also, they go bad all the time too. It also helps run your small air conditioning fan, turning it off and on at right times (I think). It has two purposes.
My water temp sensor is also at the rear of my block, all by itself, all it does is tell my dash guage what temp I'm running,no computer job connection...it's the combo one in front in the thermostat housing that does all that important stuff.
Would be good to get a vaccum guage to help you sort it out. And a simple voltmeter/ohmmeter can let you test all the sensors very simply like any book will show you.
A compression check may now be in order also, just for kicks and giggles.
I know I'm probably not helping you much, unless that radiator thing is a problem. Of course you have a new thermostat, AND IT"S NOT IN BACKWARDS, lol!
I know the serp belt can get put on wrong and run waterpump backwards...and I seem to remember there are Jeep waterpumps, maybe newer ones that run the opposite way, not so sure about that one, but I think it is so.
I hated my Jeep till I got that new radiator in it. What a pain getting calls from my wife, hood steaming by the side of the road somewhere again. "Fill it up with water from the yellow bottles in the back," I'd have to tell her. "Just let it cool down before you release the pressure from the radiator, so you don't burn yourself beyond recognition." That whole scene sucked for our family till I got the thing sorted out. I'm a firm believer in a good radiator in an XJ.

Don Jr
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by Don H Jr »

You may be within one tooth of having a runner with the distributor gear...or not.

Jr
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laxplayermjd
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by laxplayermjd »

me and my roomate are puzzled by it and both are technicians. cooling system is all brand new converted to open sytle. my 1st suspect is stuck idle air valve. im going to have a stab it at after 5 today.

going to check for some vacuum leaks. clean the iac. maybe put the stock injectors back in and see if that makes anydifference. new o2 sensor as well , new plugs, new cap and rotor, wires seem ok, i have new accel ones on order tho.

it seems to be running great for that short time, its possible its one tooth off, but it seems to be in the right spot compared to everyone elses instructions for indexing. maybe ill cut the other ear off so i can play with it back and forth a little.
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laxplayermjd
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by laxplayermjd »

well i soaked the idle valve ingector cleaning for a few hours. put the cap back on the distributor. rotoated a hair clockwise of lining up with the bolt hole. i started it and it cranked a little bit then fired up and rpms came down a little so i held it at 2500 for break in. when the idle comes down a little it may be running a little rough. i ended up finded a partially chewed through wire for the iac, and a broken hose for the map sensor. ill be fixing a few things tomorrow .

however i got the break in done and couldnt help but drive it around the parking lot :banana:
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by Don H Jr »

With the Idle Control Motor, be careful...it's very important that you DO NOT take it completely apart. The part that moves back and forth like a small piston I read never completely remove it from the unit or it's toasted. Sounds believable. I'm taking mine apart soon too.
I just returned from the Jeep Dealership Parts Dept/what's left of it, and they do not carry a gasket you may need to put the Idle Control Motor back on the throttle body after clean up. He told me to make a gasket. They only sell the whole complete part and it's not servicable...I told him, "Look into my eyes. It's servicable and I'm about to service it by removing the 4 secrews and all the gunk inside of it. I just didn't think you would not carry a gasket."
I know that part is very expensive at dealer: But I heard it's the same part Holly uses on Pro Jection set up and is available at Auto Zone for less than thirty bucks. I have the part number somewhere too, but no proof it will work, except I been told same thing by three folks, so may be something to it. They get grooves in them I'm told. You will see the unusual set up in the TB, where air is let in under the butterfly too. Weird set up, gets gooeyed up too. Everything works for awhile...and then it doesn't, right?
A new dist at dealer is $327 plus tax. Sorry not your problem, it's mine. I want to rebuild mine as its been worn out for last two hundred thousand miles.

Don Jr.
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by Don H Jr »

Glad I could be of help. It is important for your MAP vaccum line to be in one piece, that's for sure.
Also, on the Renix type TPS/IAC, the ground is often not strong and another ground wire, separate can be run from it to any ground spot to help it work better.
You probably know the MAP has an important job. Making it servicable again may just get you running smoothly. You are lucky with a Renix: YOU CAN ADJUST YOUR TPS throttle positioning sensor...I'm jealous of you for that one. Mine is non adjustable. Have fun with your volt/ohmmeter. As you well know, it can save you lots of time and money finding the gremlins.

Don Jr
Last edited by Don H Jr on May 25th, 2010, 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don H Jr
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Re: renix indexing distributor timing

Post by Don H Jr »

I hope you are clearing all the trash out of your computer from running one eighty out, by unhooking positive battery wire and grounding it thirty seconds, then turning on ignition, turn on headlights and off and turn off ignition switch.
At least on my HO computer it gets rid of all the attempts the computer had made with stuff not working right and it then runs on the pre-programmed stuff till it relearns customization during the next 50 startups, or sooner, lol.

Don Jr
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