1st off...I just wanted to say thank you to everyone on this site! Without this community of jeep phreaks, I would never even attempted building a new engine for my rig. It has been and will continue to be a great learning experience! Alright...enough wishy washy and on with the recipe!
Donor engine from '97 cherokee and the recipient is a '92 wrangler
'97 nvh block with approx 97k miles
p&p head from '97 engine
12 wt crank from early 70's cj
4.2 rods
Sealed Power H825cp .030 over hypereutectic pistons
Comp Cam 68-235-4 (@.050 intake-210 exhaust-218) Lift intake-.477 exhaust-.493
Cloyes double chain timing set
I want to try to open up the combustion chamber to nearly 59 or 60cc's
Dish the pistons to around 25cc's
and according to the calc:
4.59 liter engine
SCR: 9.14
DCR: 7.92
head gasket w/ 0 deck: .043
I live in Denver and think I can get away with running a little higher DCR. The jeep is my DD and I don't mind paying for 91 octane gas. Let me know what you guys think.
Omegatron's Strokin' it!
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omegatron
- Donator
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- Joined: July 15th, 2009, 9:32 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1992
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Wrangler
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omegatron
- Donator
- Posts: 60
- Joined: July 15th, 2009, 9:32 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1992
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
On with a little history:
Just wanted to share my experience with making this an affordable project and with a little friend called craigslist and ebay. I found a donor engine from a guy parting out a jeep cherokee on CL. There seemed to be an abundance of cherokees being parted out on CL and I was lucky enough to find a complete longblock for $150! SCORE!
(hopefully i uploaded the pics right)
Next, on with the dismantling the engine and selling of unused parts...I was able to sell the wire harness for $100, the crank and connecting rods for $90, intake manifold and throttle body for $70, fuel rail for $20 and the distributor for $15.
Project investment so far: +$140! Finally...spending way too much time in front of the cpu and on CL is starting to pay off!
Next, the hunt for the crank shaft and connecting rods...again a CL special. Found some farmer selling 2 258's out of early cj's for $80 for both! Next, I'm on the phone, begging my friend with a truck to take me out to the middle of nowhere CO to pick 'em up. We got the engines back to Denver and on with more dismantling! Both engines were in ok condition, with moderate surface rust. Luckily, the engines were stored in the back of a van and the internals were clean...well filthy oily, but no rust. Again I salvaged what I didn't use back to the vultures on CL. Sold the 258 block and head whose crank and rods I pulled for $50, and sold the other engine complete for $80 to another stroker enthusiast.
Project investment: +$190 (enough to pay for my pistons and timing gear set)
I now have the '97 block stripped down and starting to port & polish the head. Please feel free to give comments along the way as I am a total NEWBIE!
Just wanted to share my experience with making this an affordable project and with a little friend called craigslist and ebay. I found a donor engine from a guy parting out a jeep cherokee on CL. There seemed to be an abundance of cherokees being parted out on CL and I was lucky enough to find a complete longblock for $150! SCORE!
(hopefully i uploaded the pics right)
Next, on with the dismantling the engine and selling of unused parts...I was able to sell the wire harness for $100, the crank and connecting rods for $90, intake manifold and throttle body for $70, fuel rail for $20 and the distributor for $15.
Project investment so far: +$140! Finally...spending way too much time in front of the cpu and on CL is starting to pay off!
Next, the hunt for the crank shaft and connecting rods...again a CL special. Found some farmer selling 2 258's out of early cj's for $80 for both! Next, I'm on the phone, begging my friend with a truck to take me out to the middle of nowhere CO to pick 'em up. We got the engines back to Denver and on with more dismantling! Both engines were in ok condition, with moderate surface rust. Luckily, the engines were stored in the back of a van and the internals were clean...well filthy oily, but no rust. Again I salvaged what I didn't use back to the vultures on CL. Sold the 258 block and head whose crank and rods I pulled for $50, and sold the other engine complete for $80 to another stroker enthusiast.
Project investment: +$190 (enough to pay for my pistons and timing gear set)
I now have the '97 block stripped down and starting to port & polish the head. Please feel free to give comments along the way as I am a total NEWBIE!
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omegatron
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- Joined: July 15th, 2009, 9:32 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1992
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
Block on its way down:
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omegatron
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- Posts: 60
- Joined: July 15th, 2009, 9:32 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1992
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
On with the port and polish! Yeah! I totally have to admit that half the fun of this project is the tools. Getting a air compressor, die grinder...sweet torque wrenches...so much fun!
Working on the head is like meditation...you can get into a zone of working the grinder and enjoy the process of working with metal. For the p&p, I don't want to go too crazy, just a mild semi-gasket match and really concentrate on the combustion chamber, bowl and valve stem junction. After placing the gasket on the intake manifold and head, I realize I need to do trimming of all components involved. The gasket lines up pretty well on the head. There only needs to be minor trimming of the head. Also, in a few spots, the gasket overlaps into the intake runner area and will need to be trimmed. Here is a pic of the outline on the head. I tried to find some machinist blue (dykem?) but could find it at my local auto shops, said f%^k it, and whipped out the fine tip permanent marker.
Working on the head is like meditation...you can get into a zone of working the grinder and enjoy the process of working with metal. For the p&p, I don't want to go too crazy, just a mild semi-gasket match and really concentrate on the combustion chamber, bowl and valve stem junction. After placing the gasket on the intake manifold and head, I realize I need to do trimming of all components involved. The gasket lines up pretty well on the head. There only needs to be minor trimming of the head. Also, in a few spots, the gasket overlaps into the intake runner area and will need to be trimmed. Here is a pic of the outline on the head. I tried to find some machinist blue (dykem?) but could find it at my local auto shops, said f%^k it, and whipped out the fine tip permanent marker.
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omegatron
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- Joined: July 15th, 2009, 9:32 pm
- Vehicle Year: 1992
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
sorry about the pics...i still need learned!
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omegatron
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- Vehicle Year: 1992
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- Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
Picked up a +99 intake, ebay $100, and outlined the gasket as well. It looks like there is more material that needs to be removed from the intake than needs to be removed from the head. This is my goal for the p&p process and please correct me if I'm wrong.
The idea is to provide a smooth transition from the intake to the head. I plan on porting the intake manifold just slightly smaller (1mm edge or less) than the head and gasket. This ensures that there is no 'step' for the air to move over and across while traveling to the head. If too much material is removed from the transition point (gasket area), there will be a bulge in which air becomes turbulent and slows. (1bolt has a great example in one of his posts about porting).
Here are some more pics of the progress. Thanks in advance for your input.
The idea is to provide a smooth transition from the intake to the head. I plan on porting the intake manifold just slightly smaller (1mm edge or less) than the head and gasket. This ensures that there is no 'step' for the air to move over and across while traveling to the head. If too much material is removed from the transition point (gasket area), there will be a bulge in which air becomes turbulent and slows. (1bolt has a great example in one of his posts about porting).
Here are some more pics of the progress. Thanks in advance for your input.
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omegatron
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Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
Intake outline and starting to P&P
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omegatron
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Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
Having some fun with the grinder today....I'm using the grinding stone to feather back the entry of the intake ports on the head to match the gasket outline. After removing material, I gently work the stone about 1-2cm into the port, smoothing the transition. Once satisfied with that, I swap to the 40 grit large rolls and remove casting flash from the top, bottom and walls of the intake ports. Then swap to the 1/2 tapered 40 grit to get into the corners of the intake ports and remove flash deeper in the intake port. Rotated the head to have the combustion chamber accessible and start to remove the flash and any rough transition edges in the bowl area. Some of the casting flash has chowed up the mandrel rolls pretty quick! In fact, I almost need to go get another set because I have exhausted the 40 grit roll supply and I'm not even finished with the intake ports yet. Is this typical for you guys that have done p&p? There are areas where the casting flash is pretty heavy...where the valve stem protrudes through the head. I ordered some long reach carbide bits to help shape the valve stem entry.
The last step I've done is take the narrow rolls and smooth around the valve guide. I think I'm going to pause and wait for the carbide bits to arrive. I really want to shape the valve guides down and remove most of the flash before I tear up the rest of my rolls.
Please let me know if there is anything you guys think I am doing wrong or need to change....all info and tips are appreciated. Do I need to use a cutting oil or wd40 while using the carbide bits?
Also, I don't think I am going to open the exhaust ports up. Just going to clean up the flash and shape the valve guides to a more aero, and give it a nice polish.
Here are pics:
The last step I've done is take the narrow rolls and smooth around the valve guide. I think I'm going to pause and wait for the carbide bits to arrive. I really want to shape the valve guides down and remove most of the flash before I tear up the rest of my rolls.
Please let me know if there is anything you guys think I am doing wrong or need to change....all info and tips are appreciated. Do I need to use a cutting oil or wd40 while using the carbide bits?
Also, I don't think I am going to open the exhaust ports up. Just going to clean up the flash and shape the valve guides to a more aero, and give it a nice polish.
Here are pics:
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omegatron
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- Vehicle Year: 1992
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Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
Here are a few more pics of the bowl area. There are a few times I've barely nicked the valve seat....hopefully I haven't done any permanent damage. I'm going to do a 3 angle valve job after the p&p.
Bowl starting to smooth out
One question. What do you guys think about the compcam 68-235-4?
Installed @ 107 intake center line:
Lobe separation: 111.0
Gross lift: I: 0.477 E: 0.493
Duration @ .050: I:210 E:218
I know the popular choice is the 232. The reason I chose the 235 is a little longer duration with a little more lift. I thought it might help the stroke breathe easier and it allows me to run a higher compression. I have the cloyes dbl timing chain that allows a +4,0,-4 degree of adjustment.
Thanks for all the input!
Bowl starting to smooth out
One question. What do you guys think about the compcam 68-235-4?
Installed @ 107 intake center line:
Lobe separation: 111.0
Gross lift: I: 0.477 E: 0.493
Duration @ .050: I:210 E:218
I know the popular choice is the 232. The reason I chose the 235 is a little longer duration with a little more lift. I thought it might help the stroke breathe easier and it allows me to run a higher compression. I have the cloyes dbl timing chain that allows a +4,0,-4 degree of adjustment.
Thanks for all the input!
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gradon
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- Posts: 1353
- Joined: February 13th, 2008, 5:33 pm
- Stroker Displacement: 4.6/280ci
- Vehicle Year: 1996
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Cherokee
- Location: DC
Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
I didn't have the carbide bits for my head, but did for the 0630 going in my brother's 4.9l and the alu camry v6 heads and manifolds that are going into my friend's mr2(fun ride). Use cutting oil or spray wd-40 to help cool the bits. I bought the 3-pc set that summit sells($45) and man do they cut through the iron(definitely saves the SA rolls). It looks like you have a feel for it so get rid of the cast and polish it up. That cam sounds fine, you just don't want too much overlap or else you'll lose more bottom end torque.
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gonridnu
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- Stroker Displacement: 4.6L
- Vehicle Year: 1989
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: XJ 2 door
Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
Just curious if ur planning on opening ur exhaust ports up that much? I'm thinkin' that would kill a lot of torque....
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omegatron
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Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
I really don't have a plan for the exhaust ports yet. I was thinking about trying to open them up by 1mm or so....maybe not at all. The most aggressive I will be is on the valve stem guides. I want to clean a lot of the flash away, and taper the guide like this example done by maize:
I'll draw an example on my head as far as the transition from the head to the exhaust....really I have no clue and suggestions are appreciated.
Here is one of the middle exhaust ports. I was thinking about trying to open the ceiling up a little bit, making the port more circular instead of a 'square-ish' ceiling. On the 2 exhaust ports that have more of a D shape, i really want to stay away from the edge as the are almost under the gasket and again, open the side and ceiling slightly if none at all.
Here is one of the middle exhaust ports. I was thinking about trying to open the ceiling up a little bit, making the port more circular instead of a 'square-ish' ceiling. On the 2 exhaust ports that have more of a D shape, i really want to stay away from the edge as the are almost under the gasket and again, open the side and ceiling slightly if none at all.
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omegatron
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- Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
Ordered some carbide die grinder bits and went to town! I definitely recommend using them as it will save the SA kit rolls. I initially chowed up all of my 40 grit rolls because of the sharp edge where the valve guide was machined.
I concentrated on the valve stem guides and really hacked them down because there was quite a large lip where the guides were machined. I think I'm about done with the carbide bits (major metal removal) and just waiting for some more cartridge rolls to arrive in the mail. I still need to remove flash from the exhaust ports and then move on to the 80 grit rolls for the ports, and finally polish the exhaust ports and combustion chambers.
Total, I've put in about 4-5 hrs on the preliminary P&P.
There is still a little bit of a flat pad near the valve guides. Do you guys recommend that I try to smooth the transitions a little more or should I stop? It feels a little tricky trying to grind a smooth transition without removing too much material.
I concentrated on the valve stem guides and really hacked them down because there was quite a large lip where the guides were machined. I think I'm about done with the carbide bits (major metal removal) and just waiting for some more cartridge rolls to arrive in the mail. I still need to remove flash from the exhaust ports and then move on to the 80 grit rolls for the ports, and finally polish the exhaust ports and combustion chambers.
Total, I've put in about 4-5 hrs on the preliminary P&P.
There is still a little bit of a flat pad near the valve guides. Do you guys recommend that I try to smooth the transitions a little more or should I stop? It feels a little tricky trying to grind a smooth transition without removing too much material.
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omegatron
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Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
Just a few more pics....
and I totally get the abundance of iron dust!! It's everywhere!
and I totally get the abundance of iron dust!! It's everywhere!
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gradon
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- Vehicle Year: 1996
- Vehicle Make: Jeep
- Vehicle Model: Cherokee
- Location: DC
Re: Omegatron's Strokin' it!
I love those carbide bits--I didn't get the 4th one you have that's a ball shape. I picked up four 6-ton jack stands, a 12" digital caliper, and some helping hands the other day at Harbor Freight and noticed that they have some rolls for the die-grinder as well.
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