Gradon's Stroker Project

[Flash]

Is it possible to run the ones that came off the head in the first place. Then after you get the motor running right you could make the switch so it hurts less on the bank account. All they guys on hear say they are a sinch to install.

There has been many that have done it.............but if your running a bigger cam then stock, i wouldn't.


Flash

[seanyb505]

I was planning on going with a new stock replacement set. I didnt want the old wear patterns worn into new pushrods etc...Plus you cant argue with $75 compared to $400+.

[gradon]

Yeah I could always install them later. I've been emailing the different cos. that carry the YTs and have been making offers. $420 is the best so far from Patriot Performance--they were the first ones to make an aluminum head(~$1100) for the 4.0, but now they make a ported, big valve(2.02in/1.6ex) iron head with titanium seats and Patriot springs(I didn't ask $). Falcon has one on ebay for 449 or make offer, I offered them $388, with the $12 shipping=$400. They gave me a counter offer for 442.79--a whole 1.5% discount--I declined. Anyhow, since I'm using a higher lift cam, I don't want to reuse the stock rockers(even though I could and worse case scenario screw up some $16 pushrods--well as long as metal doesn't go flying). I don't want to pay $75 for new stockers either, so I'm still trying to get a deal on the YTs. I have about 4 more people to call, so I'll come back with info if I find a good deal.
Edit: So with the head shaved .004" and the block getting decked .025", will it be necessary to shim the rockers .030" or find pushrods .030" shorter? When I was talking to Mike Denmead of YT and told him of the machine work that was gonna be done to my block, he didn't recommend shimming the rockers because it would mess up the geometry.

[Flash]

Yeah I could always install them later. I've been emailing the different cos. that carry the YTs and have been making offers. $420 is the best so far from Patriot Performance--they were the first ones to make an aluminum head(~$1100) for the 4.0, but now they make a ported, big valve(2.02in/1.6ex) iron head with titanium seats and Patriot springs(I didn't ask $). Falcon has one on ebay for 449 or make offer, I offered them $388, with the $12 shipping=$400. They gave me a counter offer for 442.79--a whole 1.5% discount--I declined. Anyhow, since I'm using a higher lift cam, I don't want to reuse the stock rockers(even though I could and worse case scenario screw up some $16 pushrods--well as long as metal doesn't go flying). I don't want to pay $75 for new stockers either, so I'm still trying to get a deal on the YTs. I have about 4 more people to call, so I'll come back with info if I find a good deal.
Edit: So with the head shaved .004" and the block getting decked .025", will it be necessary to shim the rockers .030" or find pushrods .030" shorter? When I was talking to Mike Denmead of YT and told him of the machine work that was gonna be done to my block, he didn't recommend shimming the rockers because it would mess up the geometry.

You need adj rocker arms or shorter push rod. Depending on what YT you get......May still require you to have some custom length push rods made.

Will shimming the rocker arm work.......yes.....but as i said before......i wouldn't recommend it. Mike is right with it changing the Geometry. with enough shim and a high enough cam lift.........you could cover over the hole in the hallow push rod tube(which is how you get oil up to the head)that dribbles oil into the pocket or pivot area.......
Just something to thing about before you make you final decision


Flash

[gradon]

I've definitely thought about it, which is why I've been asking ?s. So where can I find pushrods of different lengths? What are the normal tolerances in pushrod length(# +/-.010, eg)? Mike told me to go ahead and install the head w/ rockers on the block and then measure the length. He didn't give any recommendation between the 6627s and the adjustable 6238s even though I explained the machining and asked which set they would recommend. I need to ask Dino more ?s from his personal experience(he already told me he got them for $360 shipped back when the dollar held more weight) and see which one he recommends. The adjustables cost $50-75 more, so $500 territory. $360 is reasonable, but for some reason(common sense maybe, even though I don't use it in other areas), I'm not willing to pay more than $400 for them.

[seanyb505]

I was told by 5-90 over on NAXJA that you could shim the rockers up to .060, but not more. All this talk about needing to get custom pushrods or adj. rockers is making me nervous seeing that I already bought pushrods and a shim kit.

[Flash]

I was told by 5-90 over on NAXJA that you could shim the rockers up to .060, but not more. All this talk about needing to get custom pushrods or adj. rockers is making me nervous seeing that I already bought pushrods and a shim kit.

There is the "right" way and then there are "shades" of GRAY................My self, i would be more comfortable with stock push rods, stock rocker arms(new) and .060 shim.......................then stock (Used) rocker arms and proper length push rods with OUT shims.................you just need to make sure the oil lube hole in the rocker arm will not be closed off, by the side of the push rod ball, at high lift.


Flash

[John]

Flash is telling you correctly to return it to its geometry, your motor oiling system for the top end will thank you, Lee sells shorter push rods, and accepting the wear patterns and vibrations introduced by a rocker arm with different established wear patterns can be at issue with valves, lifters and push rods.
John

[seanyb505]

Actually the last time I checked out Hesco for pushrods what they had was way way too short. I would have to deck .090 total or something along those lines. I could be wrong but thats what I remember reading.

[John]

They stock several different lengths, beyond what you see in their catalog.
John

[gradon]

So I went to Advanced today and bought/ordered the timing set, the water pump, the melling high-volume oil pump($30 cheaper than the regular one if you include buying the separate pickup?), and cam bearings. Yesterday I ordered the Brad Penn SAE-30 break in oil. And I came home tonight to find the Split Second PSC1-002!(Bonus--I was told that I was buying a PSC1-003). Unlike the 003, the 002 has an internal 2-bar MAP and puts out 0-5 volts. The previous owner had a turbo rubicon(so it makes sense that it's the one with the internal 2-bar map). There are 200 cells that I can modify so I can change the MAP voltage in .025V increments(increible!--spanish doesn't use the d). I was very close to buying the Innovate lc-1 wideband o2 sensor($180-200) to use in conjunction with the PSC1, but any day now(like KB), they will be releasing the lm-2 hand-held wideband o2 monitor & sensor/OBD2 scan tool & data logger combo. It has an SD card that you can plug in your computer and view the data with the Logworks3 software. Since my XJ is a 96, it is OBD2, and I have been using my dad's scan tool to view open loop/closed loop, tps, timing, temp, check codes and reset them. I've had an Accel coil fail and threw the primary coil failure code(I knew I wasn't getting spark to the distributor and measured that there was voltage on the input of the coil), so it was cool to see technology work when swapping it out with the original coil fixed the problem. On my 94 I had the JET stage 2 that really worked good with the same mods on my 96--improved the throttle response, more low end and high end and you really noticed the difference with the 93 octane. Anyway, when I got the 96, I bought a Hypertech 3 programmer/code reader, filled up with 93, installed 180* t-stat, programmed to 93, +500RPM, and 128mph governor. It ran rich at idle and then pinged with anything more than 50% throttle. Lean codes were thrown, OK, I'll cleck and clear the codes and program to 87 setting and keep the +500rpm and 128gov. Pinged in 87 octane mode--threw rich codes. I reset it back to stock, sold it for what I bought it for--$150(worked great for him), sold the 94 jet 2 for $100 and bought a the 96 Jet 2 for $90. It's good but not as good as the 94 version. It might have something to do with the different cams for the two years, but in my mind it's the OBD1 vs OBD2. I'm ranting, so in a nutshell I need my own OBD2 scan tool and need a wideband o2 sensor, so I might as well spend some more and buy the combo.

[SilverXJ]

Patriot Performance--they were the first ones to make an aluminum head(~$1100) for the 4.0, but now they make a ported, big valve(2.02in/1.6ex) iron head with titanium seats and Patriot springs(I didn't ask $).

Its a hand ported head. The retainers are Titanium, not the seats. Its $995.00

[gradon]

I finished porting the 99+ intake manifold yesterday. I held up the felpro combo gasket and used a sharpie to mark the material needed to match and when I removed the gasket, I noticed a factory scribed line 1/8" all the way around the port that the sharpie had colored in perfectly, so this is what I removed in addition to grinding the heck out of the injector bosses(esp the middle ones) and sanding the inside w/ 80 grit rolls.

[gradon]

I couldn't keep on waiting for KB to release the 944s, so I ordered the only set of 6 pistons in .020" or .030" over that my brother, who works at advanced auto, could get--the H825cp30s. I also ordered the Premium Moly rings--E24K30s and six of the R905 Rocker Arm Assemblies(2 arms, 2 pivots, 1 bridge--$12.44), the 9.602" RP 3257 pushrods--$40, and some plasti-gauge. Anyhow the only parts left to order are the main and rod bearings and the freeze plugs. I'll start out using the stock 23.2# injectors and then get some of those LT-1s(25-26#s on the 49# rail) and will buy the lm-2 wideband o2/scanner/logger when it comes out to help tune the PSC1-002.

[gradon]

Went to the JY yesterday to get that girdle I tried to get a week ago--$5.66(misc. price) with the studs and nuts. I also picked up a 97+ electric fan--$16+2 for core charge, and upper radiator mount(current one has stud pulled out). Today I went to the Air Show at Andrew's AFB and saw a lot of awesome planes in action: some cool double-winger stunt planes(esp Sean Tucker), the Harrier, the P-51, F-4, F104, F-15, F-18s(including Blue Angels), B2 flybys, the Red Bull Air Force team and their helicopter that could do flips and rolls, and the amazing F-22(youtube can not convey the live experience). My parents used to take me back in the 80's. Anyhow I came home to find out that my pistons are at the local UPS location and will be able to pick them up from AA on Monday. I'll drop them and the block off to my machinist and hopefully have them back Tuesday night. So it's on for the Wednesday and Thursday build.