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Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 19th, 2009, 7:10 am
by lafrad
The part number for the mopar Valvespring Retainer: 53021676AB

its application fits a 5.7L or 6.1L HEMI.

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 19th, 2009, 4:09 pm
by SilverXJ
If you don't mind I will be adding the part numbers to the misc part numbers FAQ.

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 23rd, 2009, 7:05 pm
by Biggrnjeep97
Ok, Im self taught in the world of valvesprings/valves/cams and maybe im misunderstanding/not getting it but why did you go with the ovate wire springs? i was on crowers website and tried to compare them to others and came up with 68305's. Theyre very closely matched(i think) so i dont understand why u went with a spring that required so much headwork, (IE cutting of the seats) if the 68305 look like theyre comparable. Explain please!?
-Will

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 23rd, 2009, 7:49 pm
by SilverXJ
I think he wanted something smaller than the Mopar Performance springs, and less weight. The 68305s, while they are a good fit, are just about as large as the MP springs. Also, I don't think the 68305s are beehive springs. At least that is the way I see it.

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 23rd, 2009, 7:58 pm
by lafrad
I was REALLY looking to get a lightweight, low cost solution that used the "premium" wire setup.

The "beehive" shape, with the different diameter at the top and the bottom, along with the oval-style wire, all create a spring that is extremely resistant to spring harmonics, and significantly reduce stress on the rest of the valvetrain over their entire operating range. Since I had a batch of "Hemi" sized 8* steel retainers to match the 8* 3 groove locks that the stock valves use, it was easier for me to do the seat cutting to get what I wanted.

It has the side effect of leaving a TON of room around the valve tip for any rocker arm I want to run, along with a very narrow profile to stay far away from the valvecover. My build is currently going to be stock rocker arms and stock valvecover, with a much better controlled spring and stock spring pressure at peak lift. its positive on all fronts, short of the head machining. (the spring rate on the spring you quoted is 50% higher too...)

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 23rd, 2009, 8:11 pm
by lafrad
Looks like the "stock" HEMI retainers from Crower are 87035 (steel) and 87035T (Titanium)
they are wider than the stock ford retainer for the spring (good, more stable), but their "inner locator" for the ford spring is 0.005" smaller in diameter (basically no difference).

so, the setup I have is:

68193 - Springs
87035 - Retainers
STOCK locks
STOCK valves.

Cut valve seats.

the titanium would cut the retainer weight almost in half... making the already lightweight setup even lighter.

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 23rd, 2009, 8:16 pm
by lafrad
and... to complete the information from that page...

Looks like Crower part: 68992 is a spring seat cutter that will cut the valve guide down to the 0.720" diameter for the springs. it will take a wider cut than I have... and probably look 1000% better, as you won't have to cut an oil drain into the side...heh...

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 24th, 2009, 4:14 am
by SilverXJ
Did the Hemi retainer have the same install height as the stock retainer?

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 24th, 2009, 3:12 pm
by lafrad
It was slightly different.

i don't remember exactly, but I think I measured the "stock" spring seat, to hemi retainer, as around 1.600", instead of 1.640"

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 24th, 2009, 4:23 pm
by Biggrnjeep97
You couldnt have done this writeup at a better time. I think i may do this combo on my own head (if copying its ok with you). You went with a 1.700" height, correct?, but your recommending the above mentioned cutter to get the desired .720". What did you cut yours to (diameter wise)?
-Will

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 24th, 2009, 4:27 pm
by Biggrnjeep97
lafrad wrote: 87035 (steel) and 87035T (Titanium)
87035 = $62.00
87035T= $328.00 OUCH!

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 24th, 2009, 4:29 pm
by SilverXJ
Yeah, Titanium isn't cheap. But it sure is neat stuff.

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 24th, 2009, 4:38 pm
by Biggrnjeep97
SilverXJ wrote:Yeah, Titanium isn't cheap. But it sure is neat stuff.
Thats one of the materials my work specializes in cutting. Its very different from any other material and looks so damn cool with a nicely turned finish.
-Will

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 25th, 2009, 5:59 am
by SilverXJ
It also is easier to anodize than aluminum. Got any scraps you want to send my way?

Re: Crower "Beehive" springs (Ovate wire)

Posted: November 25th, 2009, 8:16 am
by lafrad
Biggrnjeep97 wrote:You couldnt have done this writeup at a better time. I think i may do this combo on my own head (if copying its ok with you). You went with a 1.700" height, correct?, but your recommending the above mentioned cutter to get the desired .720". What did you cut yours to (diameter wise)?
-Will
You sure can use this, I posted it for all to see and use :-)

you can ask around for the retainers if you know any HEMI guys... there are quite a few "stock" "used" ones that are floating around that would work rather well... (as I did).

My dad works at a machine shop, and actually made a custom seat cutter, before I found that one on the crower page. its exterior diameter left... well.. at least 0.060" around the spring, making a "pocket" for the spring to sit in. I then used a dremel to cut a notch in that pocket so the oil would drain instead of sit and cook. the "inside" diameter of the seat cutter is just a little bit bigger than the valve seal... which turns out *perfect*, as the springs can use the stock valve seals without a problem.

I would be willing to let you use the cutting tool if you are careful... drill on medium speed with good cutting pressure is all it takes.... Maybe a small deposit and shipping covered? Get ya the deposit back after I get the tool back?