More Titan noises

[SilverXJ]

My re assembled Titan 4.fail engine has had a "whrr" sound coming from it. The best way to describe it is as alternator whine. but its not the alt or and accessories as I removed teh fan belt and ran the engine. I just got a new stethoscope because I can't find my old one (actually, it is probably in PA). I attempted to hunt down the "whrr" sound... now I am even more confused... it is loudest on the left hand side of the intake manifold right around where the three or so vacuum hoses connect. As I move away it gets quieter... closer and it gets louder. I checked the head, the passenger side of the engine, the timing chain cover, the exhaust manifold, etc. Any ideas? Sound kind of weird air pulses colliding?

Now, there is a new sound that I only hear when the engine is fully up to temp. Sounds like a rattle/tap. It appears to be loudest up around 1500 RPM. After 1500 it isn't quite as loud or goes away (or is masked by the engine's roar). I wasn't able to locate that because I couldn't really hear it that well in the engine bay and I couldn't exactly find 1500 rpm or hold it there for that matter. I'm thinking sticking lifter or some other valve train problems?

At whits end with sounds...

-Chris

[Flash]

My re assembled Titan 4.fail engine has had a "whrr" sound coming from it. The best way to describe it is as alternator whine. but its not the alt or and accessories as I removed teh fan belt and ran the engine. I just got a new stethoscope because I can't find my old one (actually, it is probably in PA). I attempted to hunt down the "whrr" sound... now I am even more confused... it is loudest on the left hand side of the intake manifold right around where the three or so vacuum hoses connect. As I move away it gets quieter... closer and it gets louder. I checked the head, the passenger side of the engine, the timing chain cover, the exhaust manifold, etc. Any ideas? Sound kind of weird air pulses colliding?

Now, there is a new sound that I only hear when the engine is fully up to temp. Sounds like a rattle/tap. It appears to be loudest up around 1500 RPM. After 1500 it isn't quite as loud or goes away (or is masked by the engine's roar). I wasn't able to locate that because I couldn't really hear it that well in the engine bay and I couldn't exactly find 1500 rpm or hold it there for that matter. I'm thinking sticking lifter or some other valve train problems?

At whits end with sounds...

-Chris

As you can see there has been 17 of us view this thread..................Don't know what to suggest other then watch you guages and put some miles on it........could be a lifter thats got some air in it, and not wanting to releases it............I would triple check the preload on the cylinder that is closest to the section of the manifold that you can here the noise.

One question.......was you using the metal tip of you stethicope.......if so remove the tip so that the only thing you have left is the hose.
Move it back and forth until you find the noise. This is also a good way to find vacuum leaks


Flash

[SilverXJ]

The whrr noise was found via the tube and steel rod on the scope. Which I found the location of, but I don't understand it, because it is coming from the left side of the manifold.

I haven't nailed down the tick because I haven't had time, but I will try to this weekend.

[1bolt]

IAC stuck open? Long shot, but I've been dealing with this on mine lately seems to make a really loud hollow kind of air rushing noise that might be described as a whrr.

Does the sound actually cycle at all?

And when you say left side of the manifold... you mean left as in close to the head or left as in the front of the engine?

Any chance you can take a vid of the sound?

[SilverXJ]

If the IAC was stuck open, wouldn't it have a high idle? Left, as in the driver's side, away from the head.The sound doesn't cycle, but it changes with engine RPM.

I'll get around to taking some vid this weekend.. if it stays dry out.

[SilverXJ]

Took my valve cover off today for inspection. the rockers are fine, nothing seems lose. However I think there is quite a bit of movement in the valve stem horizontally, i.e. worn valve guide. I isolated the sound to cylinder #5. How much movement is allowable? That is probably where the valve train noise is coming from.

Here is a video of the horizontal valve stem movement:
http://jeep.blackonyx.net/titan/valvemove.mov

Also, here is a video where you can hear the "whrr" sound coming form the intake manifold:
http://jeep.blackonyx.net/titan/whrr.mov

[John]

Valve guides spec is .313 to .314 and valve stem to guide clearance of .001 to .003 inch. Good luck, you have had enough of the other.
John

[SilverXJ]

that is a whole lot more movement than .003"

[gradon]

How does it compare to the movement of the other valve guides?

[SilverXJ]

I only checked that one cylinder and the other valve had movement as well, not quite as much a the rear valve.

-Chris

[Flash]

I only checked that one cylinder and the other valve had movement as well, not quite as much a the rear valve.

-Chris

WOW, sound like you have way to much wear. I Couldn't get either one of your videos to run.........

If you have way more then .003, that john has said, you need to spend the time to see how many are out of spec.
If most of then are out of spec,......I would recommend a different head,......as you will be a lot of (more )cash into the head. It will require a compete over hall of the head! As once the guides are drilled out and replace, every thing else will need to be re-machined to match the fresh guides.

I don't thing the valve train noise is the valve smacking against the guide as much as, the valve moving around is cause the HYd part of the lifter to be continually trying to pump up, but the lenth keeps changing. The valve moving around my only cause the valve train to change it height buy a fue Thousands but that might be enough to keep the Hyd part of the lifter confused...........Just thing out loud here............

Flash

[SilverXJ]

I'm re upping the vids in mov and wmv formats...

[SilverXJ]

http://jeep.blackonyx.net/titan/valvemove.mov
http://jeep.blackonyx.net/titan/valvemove.wmv

http://jeep.blackonyx.net/titan/whrr.mov
http://jeep.blackonyx.net/titan/whrr.wmv

try those.

-Chris

[John]

Just looked at the movies........
Mount a dial indicator to read off the retainer and if it is more than .003. The guides and seats are machined from the casting, inserts can be bought and fitted, oversize stem valves can be purchased. I would check all of them with a dial indicator. Do you have one and attachments?
John

[SilverXJ]

Yes, I have the dial indicator and attachments. However, I know it is more than .003". I don't think I would notice .003" movement at a quick glance and shake of the valve by hand. For now my plan of action is to buy a good used 0630 head. Have it inspected then do some polishing and porting work. Then have a 3 angle valve job and have the surface flattened. Maybe install larger valves but that would be more money and from recent threads the opinion is that they don't do anything.

No sense in even bothering with Titan about this as I will most likely get another piece of crap from them. Keep in mind that they were suppose to go through this head when they first got it. Then most recently they installed larger valves. That was less than 400 miles ago. Nothing I could have done between when they put the larger valves in and now could have caused this. I wonder if the clowns could have installed smaller stemmed valves. All I know is that they are out of a Dodge 360. Judging from the stem size I would say a late model 215 or something like that.