1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

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yuppiexj
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Stroker Displacement: 4.5 needs assembly
Location: Fredercksburg VA (land of nothing)

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by yuppiexj »

ccpanel wrote:I wish as the person who started a topic that i had indefinate edit rights to my own postings... then i could go back and edit pics to be hosted in right location while still keeping flow of the story...
moderator?
Donators get unlimitied editing.
TurboTom wrote:i will eat my words later if need be.
TurboTom wrote: Not sure of your rules...but you need to start with an engine that works best for the rules and cheat from there!
Proud owner of many stroker parts, that have not yet spontaneously assembled themselves.
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
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Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

Its been a few months since I wrote about the truck so heres an update. The tranny and 208AM got dropped off to be rebuilt. The 208 needed a new chain and apparently the 727 tranny was trashed from the TV link being mis-adjusted(DPO!)

I am running a carb(insert luddite comment here)and so have to make my early manifolds match to the 7120 head. Using a 91 header until I fab my own concoction. With a small trim-the 81 manifold nestled right in.
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Here is a shot of the mods I made to the 81 intake to mate to the 7120 head. Another 84 intake shown to compare.
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After a week of using the jeep strokers website calculator http://www.jeepstrokers.com/calculator/ I finally decided I need to remove as much chamber material as possible. I started going to town on one chamber and managed to get from 57.5cc to 60cc but I felt the chamber was too thin. That grey stuff was used to seal the chamber to measure the cc.
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I went to the wreck yard and grabbed another 7120 head as a backup. After doing more math I decided it wasn’t worth it and was gonna just retard a stock cam to bring my DCR down to streetable. =(( I grabbed my redneck valvespring compressor and went to work tearing down the head.
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I did some minor chamber smoothing and tried to clean things up a little. Acting on my machinists advice, I took care of the ridges around the valve seat and blended a teardrop shape into the valvestem area. I left the intake port alone to keep the air turbulent and keep the fuel suspended. I did a mild polish on the exhaust port. I could have taken more material but I not only didn’t want to take the time-I didn’t want to accidentally hit water due to a possible core shift. This head got dropped at the machinist to get new stainless valves, beehive springs and a nice custom valve job.
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I started mocking up my accessories to get a feel of where I am going to mount my York compressor for my onboard air.
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

In the quest to build the most reliable and inexpensive to operate motor for my truck I figured out that I had to have a zero deck motor with the 0.043” thick headgasket acting as the quench distance for expansion. This distance will yield the most power while simultaneously cutting down on possible pinging. Long story short-after research a smaller quench yields higher compression but offsets that by majorly decreasing pinging. Google it-I’m not explaining properly.

So I went to my machinist Tuesday and we put the crank in along with a few bearings and put one piston on the longest rod and assembled it to the crank. Then we measured how far down the piston sits in the cylinder to determine how much to shave off the block. Initially my (very excellent) machinist wanted to just take 0.010 off the block but I pushed for the procedure we did on Tuesday. I am VERY glad we did it as the block turned out to need 0.055-0.057 taken off to achieve the desired zero deck!

WoW! If the block was not zeroed it would have meant a quench height of about 0.099 which would have meant not only would I have given up 40-50hp, but I would have been buying jet fuel to stop the pinging.

No pictures yet but with the tranny/transfer sitting rebuilt in the garage, and my IFSJA replacement driveshaft leaning against the wall-I am antsy to get started.
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

I thought I had posted about getting my trans back from Sierra and transfer back from the shop a few weeks ago but I guess not.Anyway-heres a average shot of it sitting on the HF dolly. 727 trans and 208AM transfer w/new chain.
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 So today I stopped by my machine shop-B&B-Excellent job!- and was intending to stop by to say hi and pay my bill. Ended up making my CRX do another day of truck duty with all the parts handed off to me including head, crank, block and more.
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The clearance at the front tire is more than normal and the clearance at the back is a LOT less. 1800# car and 400-500# of hardware.. LOL
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Thanks to my neighbor for helping me lift the block out of car and onto engine stand.
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Pistons got dished to 18.25cc from a 15.5 stock
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Block got brass freeze plugs and 0.056” taken off the top.
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

Long story short, I was able to pick up the correct bearings for the new motor today. Wrong ones came with order, corrected-new ones were previously used/installed. 3rd set came today and was installed. Mains ended up ranging between 0.002-0.0025” except rear main which was 0.003” machinist did a zero deck which was tested with the std bearings instead of the 10/10 bearings... so with my dial gauge i read a piston standing 0.0075 proud of the block.. hmmmm... good thing i didnt order the 043 gasket and have the 052 felpro.. hmmm...
Rods were 0.002 and all was installed just fine.
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

got the last piston ring in, getting ready to degree MC 809 cam which is OEM for 89 4.0.
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installed 1 of the new mile marker 104 hubs cause i cant get to the other wheel right now.
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Last edited by ccpanel on January 17th, 2010, 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

So I got out the degree wheel and the dial caliper after spending a lots of hours wrapping my brain around degreeing the cam.
I needed a way to reach WAY down into bore to get to lifter and accurately measure valve lift. A lot of people mention using a pushrod but it woulda been flopping around and just not as accurate as I wanted.
I grabbed a handful of the old lifters and welded them together. That way there would be limited rocking, I would be assured of a solid contact and hands-free operation. I used 3 of them and welded together in a stack with bottoms at both ends for a flat measuring surface. First try worked for a bit then weld broke cause I had to grind smooth to fit in lifter bore. Next try will be perm as I ground 3 vertical deep grooves for weld to grab so I could grind smooth but still have a good weld.
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I set it all up and got it dialed in with TDC zero and all (BTW-due to some tolerance stacking and an error in initial bearing size the piston instead of zero deck is proud about 7 thousandths…)
I had a heck of a time making sense of the results-it was telling me I was 166 degrees centerline (54 degrees retarded) or something equally weird (116.5/216.5)... This went on for a while till I realized I was measuring exhaust lifter instead of intake-DOH!
Once I fixed that (swapping holes is what broke initial lifter extension) I initially measured around a 125 centerline (80.5/169). Cam is ground to be a 112 and factory set –8 retarded. I wanted something more like 109(3 advanced) and I ended up with 63.5 at 050 before max lift and 154 at .050 after max lift to give me a 108.75 centerline.
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This changes things too depending on headgasket-I could be looking at 9.93SCR/7.85DCR and 0.044 quench with cam at 112(straight up) advancing 3.25 degrees will give me 9.93SCR/8.05DCR 0.044 quench. If headgasket turns out to be the 0.041 instead of the 0.051 I’m gonna be running expensive gas at 10.15/8.23 with 0.034 quench.  Hmmm…
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

So I knew the piston was sticking out of the hole but my inaccurate method of measuring ended up with 0.007 above deck.

Well, the saga goes on.
Yesterday I was able to borrow the machinists piston height checker dial gauge and measured the piston stick-out above the block. Due to tolerance stacking, in order, the pistons were .010, .013, .014, .014, .0155, .014 sticking out of the deck.

Those numbers were supposed to be .010. The reason I think they got off was the crank was ground 10/10 which meant they had to follow the casting which could have been off from OEM.

So 2-3 thousandths there and maybe a piston was cast a little off and then maybe a bearing shell was off and maybe the rod wasn’t perfectly ground. When you add up the 4-5 different possible places to have a critical dimension, then you can end up with that much error. The 010 out of the block is what I want to end up with so that combined with the measured 049 headgasket that supposedly will compress to 046… I’m gonna be pushing the compression!

So today I pulled all but the #1 piston, marked bearings to make sure they went back exactly in the same spot, and pulled the rings BACK off the pistons and took them back to the machine shop to be re-cut to alleviate the 0055 too much stickout. Will see on Monday what it ends up with. :brickwall:
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
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Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

update 2/5/2010

now 2.75/4.50/5.25/5.50/3.50/3.00
gonna deal with it. 0.0025 difference high to low is acceptable

stock is 8.7SCR, 6.36 DCR, and 0.0725 quench cam -8' and 8.7/6.82/.0725 at 0 advance

After all these weeks I will end up with 9.93SCR, 7.85DCR, and 0.0429 quench straight zero cam.
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

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91 header
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

I spent a little time in Kragen today opening filter boxes to help decide which filter to use. I wanted the biggest one that would work and fit. The block is a 1989 which is same as a 1991. The chassis is a 81 so I thought I might worry about clearance but that is not an issue.
91 oil filter is a short squat PH16 prob same volume as a soda can
81 oil filter is a PH3675 which is about the size of a soda can
In 1980 and earlier, there was a PH11 which is HUGE and the size of a small peanut butter jar.
The 81 block used a small anti-drainback spring assembly captured under the filter thread adapter.
The 91 block has no such provision apparent and the cast aluminum adapter has nothing internally. The filter itself has a small anti-drainback O-ring built into itself.
So I removed the short threaded piece from the 81 block, removed the long threaded extension out of the 91 adapter and put the 81 piece in.
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This allows me to use the early style filter which can be the small 3675, the fatter short PH25, or the fat and long PH11 which will give me almost double the filter capacity for now. Later, I will be installing a remote filter so the filter can be vertical and not leak when changed and not drain back at all. I will also install a oil cooler.
For now I will either use the adapter;
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or I will go straight to block like this;
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I will probably go straight to the block unless research tells me different.
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SilverXJ
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Vehicle Model: Cherokee
Location: Radford, Va

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by SilverXJ »

Looking good. Maybe you already stated it, but what are your plans for the rest of the truck? I kind of like it in it currently patina.

Don't like the orange filter, but larger size is good. I use the M1 301 and other brand variants for the larger filter. Using the adapter or not will depend on what clearances you have with the body/frame.
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ccpanel
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 139
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 1:30 am
Stroker Displacement: 275
Vehicle Year: 1950
Vehicle Make: chevy
Vehicle Model: truck
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by ccpanel »

SilverXJ wrote:Looking good. Maybe you already stated it, but what are your plans for the rest of the truck? I kind of like it in it currently patina.

Don't like the orange filter, but larger size is good. I use the M1 301 and other brand variants for the larger filter. Using the adapter or not will depend on what clearances you have with the body/frame.
Patina for now, down the road it will be painted rich royal blue(2002 jetta).

I will also be adding full onboard York air to run the rear overloads. It also has a dump bed that will be lifted by airbags. This is designed to me my low miles tow rig and for doing cross-mountain runs on snowy paved roads to visit inlaws and ski areas.

The interior is already painted "hammered silver"

orange filter is for the first 100 miles of clean-up, then it will be another one for the following 500 miles, then Napa gold or K/N or Mobile one high quality filter. once I get past break-in it will be ONLY full synthetic Mobile 1 plus the EOS additive.

Adapter not needed for any clearance. However-the old 258 block has a pressure relief valve-what provision is there in the 4.0 system? Is it filter based or block based(I didnt see anything in the block)
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SilverXJ
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Posts: 5789
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 7:14 am
Stroker Displacement: 4.6L
Vehicle Year: 2000
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Cherokee
Location: Radford, Va

Re: 1950 chevy truck jeep stroker

Post by SilverXJ »

On the 4.0L the pressure relief is in the oil pump and the filter bypass in the filter.

You aren't ditching the step side bed for the dump bed?
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