New 4.6L stroker build

[SilverXJ]

Still, I wonder if it might be a factor, especially for a new build with tight clearances. All the service manuals call for 10W30. I don't see why it should be thicker for breakin. Anyway, just thinking out loud here.

Oh yeah.. I used Joe Gibbs 10w30 with the last Isky cam with the same result.

What are the consistent things across all these ranges of failures? what parts are the same for each cam failure?

Different block, new cam, same grind though, different oil pump, different lifters, different bearings, different Break in oil.
The oil pickup changed when I went with the first Isky cam. Head, rockers, pushrods, crankshaft and pistons stayed the same. The rockers have been used on all the engines, maybe 4 different variations since before I built this one. This is the only time I had a cam bearing failure. It is not the rockers bleeding down oil pressure as my machinist thinks.

really looks like lack of oil to the bearings.

Since the oil pickup came out so easily from the oil pump I think the pump could have been drawing air thought the mating surface. It would also explain why when the engine got fully heated up that the weird lifter sound went away a bit. But when why aren't the other bearings showing so much wear?

i have ruled out any kind of binding, so it has to be something with oil pressure/airation, or my harmonic/balance theory.

[Bodo]

Since the oil pickup came out so easily from the oil pump I think the pump could have been drawing air thought the mating surface. It would also explain why when the engine got fully heated up that the weird lifter sound went away a bit. But when why aren't the other bearings showing so much wear?

Don't those cam bearings get oil first? If so, the aeration theory holds. Bubbles still suspended there, but are able to 'fall out' by the time they get to the other bearings.

Just spit balling here

[SilverXJ]

Yes, the cam bearings are on the main bearing galley. Interesting theory. Air would explain that odd lifter sound too...

[YJason]

Are you running a high volume oil pump? If so, how many qts of oil are you using? My MS said my mains looked like the engine was ran low on oil, I was running 6 qts. I now run 7 1/2 and my valvetrain sounds a little quiter than it did before, could be my imagination too.

[SilverXJ]

Nope, no high flow.

[Bodo]

Just looked at the bearing pictures again. In the second pic, it looks like the cam bearings are not clocked properly.
Do those cam bearings have multiple oil holes?

[SilverXJ]

Yes, that cam bearing has multiple holes. All the holes are lined up.

[SilverXJ]

I'm pretty sure it was the oil pickup causing the two cam bearing failures since it came out so easily from the oil pump. It would make sense since the valve train quieted down after the engine was warmed up. Hot oil=thinner oil=less resistance=less air being pulled through. And it was one of the items I changed after I killed the comp cam and went with the isky cam.


So... New parts
-First off new OIL PICKUP.
-oil pump
-all bearings
-new cam
-new pistons

I sent one of my cranks from a previous engine off to Hesco because Lee believe the knock that has been persistent from all stroker to be related to a taper in the crank shaft. Lee said the crankshaft turn job was complete crap. The crank was a .10/.10 so Hesco turned it to .20/.20 to make it right and then balanced it. Hopefully that will take care of that knock. Hesco also matched the bearings to the crank so I have 13 numbered ziplock bags with bearings in them.

I went with the Hesco RVOB cam. I liked the top end in the Isky cam vs the comp cam that I decided to try something with a little bit more duration. The cam was ground by Clay Smith as indicated by the front of the cam. I'm quite impressed by the cam work. All sharp surfaces on the lobes and gear have been rounded off. Its not just ground then shipped off. There was a lot of attention to detail put into this cam. The parkerized coating is much more porous than any other parkerizing I have seen (comp, isky, crane) Meaning it will hole oil and break in lube better. The cam was ordered on 4/23 and arrived 4/27. The only disappointment was the lifters. If you take a look at my lifter comparison thread they look like the engine tech/mystery lifters with a ball valve. Hesco said they are Elgin lifters. Seeing as Hesco probably produces the most strokers and they use these lifters themselves I will probably use them.

Keith Black sent me a new set of .040" over pistons in 4032 alloy so I will be having the block bored and honed for them.

Previously to stripping the block for the engine shop I plastigauged the bearing clearances because I will be using the same block and rods. All clearances were between .0015" and .0002". One less step when I assemble it.

In an attempt to keep my costs down the machine shop let me use their equipment to balance the pistons and pins. The lightest piston and rod combo is 606.2 grams and the heaviest was 607.4 grams. Only 1.2 grams difference. Well, I found that 1.2 grams difference is a lot of work. I removed a bit of material from the pistons but my machinist suggest removing weight from the pin instead. 1.2 grams is a lot of 4032 alloy. So most of the weight was from the pin, even though very little was removed from the pin, like .010" at most from the ends. I found that out quick on the #3 piston when I took too much off the pin and ended up with a lighter piston than needed. Also, breathing on the scale equals .1-.3 grams.. very sensitive. You move your hand toward the piston and without even touching the piston the weight will change. So, after 4 hours all pistons weight exactly 606.2 grams.

Even thought the rods were previously balanced I may ask the machinist (Roger, might as well give him a name now) to show me how to balance a rod next weekend. If I knew how to bore the block I would do it myself as well.

[Muad'Dib]

I dont think its possible for you to have another failure again... i think you have used up too many bad lucks for your lifetime of engine building.....

[SilverXJ]

The S&B CAI finally pushed me over the edge. To refresh: it fit like shit. Air hat had to be modified or else the hood wouldn't close, air box needed to have its holes relocated, and the nipple for the valve cover vent wasn't round and needed work. When I first had to do all the mods I called and they pretty much said "tough shit".

Two months ago I called S&B to ask the filter flange ID. They said 3.5". I don't know why I didn't measure it myself at the time. So I purchased a larger Amsoil filter with a 3.5" flange ID. Guess what... it didn't fit. I checked the air tube's OD.... 3.25". So, another phone call to S&B. They tried to tell me that the filter is in fact a 3.5". So, after much argument they are buying the POS back.

I'll be getting a Volant (this one says the filter is 3.5" too..lol) with the check they send and making my own air box for it.

[SilverXJ]

Work made me leave early Friday as I already had a lot of over time. Stopped by the machine shop and the machinist helped me assemble the short block. I removed the cam bearings than washed the block. He then put the cam bearings in, I put the crank in and put the pistons onto the rods. We came back today and finished it then I took it to my storage unit. Hopefully I'll be able to finish the block tomorrow.

[SilverXJ]

Its together. Just need to drop it in. Maybe I can do the cam break in this Sunday.. maybe. Once again the timing was a full tooth out. I really don't know how I do that.. maybe its the timing set because I never had any timing problem previously to running this set. Of course i never degreed it until recently when using this set and I am glad I did. But I think 13* out would cause some sort of driveablity issue. One of the bolt holes for the oil pan was stripped on the timing cover. I had a metric bolt that fit though. I forgot to check valve to piston clearance buy Lee says there will be plenty of room, and while I don't have experience with this cam I agree because I had plenty of room on the comp cam 68-231 and the Isky cam when I checked it.

I'm also working on putting a WJ booster and master cylinder in. I heard it provides better braking over the stock setup, but I am not sure.. we shall see. Had it tack welded last night and then test fit it today. I spent about an hour under the dash (which is not a lot of fun) trying to figure out why the brake pedal beam wouldn't touch the brake switch... then I recalled on my '91 that the brake switch was adjustable and I did remember hearing a ratcheting sound when I was bolting the booster up. So another 5 minutes and I figured out that you just pull the plunger out to move the switch position. It makes sense because I couldn't figure out how the factor could get each and every vehicle so precise that they can use the same switch for each vehicle assembled... i guess the don't.. lol. I'll get the rest of the rod welded by next week and after the engine is broke in and running I will swap the MC and booster over.

And I checked the old oil pickup to oil pump and it was so lose I could push it in by hand.

[basscat]

I've got my fingers crossed for ya.

[SilverXJ]

Its running. Started it around 2:45 and began the cam break in. No weird lifter noise. The valve train is quiet. Oil pressure is 20 hot idle and 60 around 2000 RPM. Using straight 30 wt for now. I've only driven it about 17 miles but it is behaving well. For the first few miles the idle would drop really low when stopped.. like 400-500 RPM. After a bit I think it stopped doing that and is idling correctly. I contribute it to the PCM learning. I'll keep an eye on it though.

The Brown Dog engine mounts were a bit stiff at first, but after the cam break in and a few miles they seemed to have softened up a bit. They are nice... I do notice a bit more vibs, but they may still not be broken in to much yet. However, the vibes aren't really obnoxious and you really feel more of a connection to the engine. The exhaust leak is quite annoying though.

Now the bad news. The damn knock is still there at idle. #*&^@*#^*&#^ knock. At this point it may just be part of the harmonics of the engine or something in my combination as I have pretty much covered all the bases there are to for that type of sound. I'll live with it not and keep an eye on it and the crank end play. There is also an exhaust leak where the header meets the down pipe which I will take care of tomorrow.. replacing the gasket.. heck, its only been reused 3 times or so I just thought there was maybe one more use in it. I'll do that after work when the engine is cold.

Oh yah.. and the damn remote for my alarm died.

[the_wrench116]

so now that you can do this in your sleep how much do you charge for a built motor