Let's build a 4.6 stroker

[Cheromaniac]

Is there any sort of guide on using reconditioned rods vs. the scat ones? At what horsepower rating should you get the scat rods? The only articles I can find on bad stock rods is when hydrolocked and they bend. My local guy does a beautiful job reconditioning rods.

I haven't heard of any 4.0L rod failures at up to 400hp.

[jeepxj3]

Here's what I found-
Stock Rods good to 400HP- Still need to 'recondition' and new stock rod bolts, EngineTech $28ea, $168set
Stock Rods with ARP rod bolts, shot peened, polished edge, Good to 450HP - Still need to 'recondition' shot peen and polish and ARP bolts $125 +$168 +?60shot peen and polish, $350total
Scat Forged Rods good to 500-550HP - new out of the box, nothing required, $250, Only $80 more than reconditioned stock rods! $100 Cheaper than 'built' stock rods
Scat Forged Rods with upgraded ARP 2000 bolts good to 550+HP -Still need to add ARP bolts, $250+$125, $375 total
Eagle Forged H Rods good 600+, -unavailable

The Scat rods sound like the real winner.

[jsawduste]

Here's what I found-
Stock Rods good to 400HP- Still need to 'recondition' and new stock rod bolts, EngineTech $28ea, $168set
Stock Rods with ARP rod bolts, shot peened, polished edge, Good to 450HP - Still need to 'recondition' shot peen and polish and ARP bolts $125 +$168 +?60shot peen and polish, $350total
Scat Forged Rods good to 500-550HP - new out of the box, nothing required, $250, Only $80 more than reconditioned stock rods! $100 Cheaper than 'built' stock rods
Scat Forged Rods with upgraded ARP 2000 bolts good to 550+HP -Still need to add ARP bolts, $250+$125, $375 total
Eagle Forged H Rods good 600+, -unavailable

The Scat rods sound like the real winner.

Even NIB Scat rods can need some "love".

Everyone's ability/resources are different. From your description OP your not going to be making some high HP engine (which is 90% + of us) so most any well built rod will suffice.

Russ I think will agree with bushing the small ends for floating pins is a very worthwhile endeavor.

[Hussler]

The $240 on the new rods sounds pretty nice, what do you mean by "need some love"?

I found a 4.2 in the junkyard today and went whole hog on it, crank casting number 3235477. It's in super nice shape but I'll prob have it turned down .10 because my finger nail catches in a couple spots. I will need the hesco spacer with this crank correct?

[jsawduste]

Floating pins, checking for straightness, bearing crush, center to center, bolt stretch. Chamfering on the big end and checking roundness, balancing, trimming of the balance pad for piston clearance. There can a lot of work in just prepping rods if you want to do it right.

Russ has boxes of crank spacers.

[Hussler]

Damn, quality control that off at scat? If I have to send the rods off to get checked then I think I would just be better off having mine redone with arp studs.

I'll be getting at least my Pistons and rings from Russ so I'll do the spacer through him too.

The fuel rail, I've got the older style rail, will that plug right into the newer style manifold? Should I use the older style rail? I ask because it turns out I only have the 19lb ford injectors so I guess I'll be buying the 24lb and a Hesco regulator

[Russ Pottenger]

I agree with John, and maybe this is a good time to give you some of my thoughts.

Maybe with the exception of the cylinder head and camshaft, few engine components have such a wide variety of modifications and upgrade choices.

I put a connecting rod and maybe the crankshaft in a engine component category of "Work but don't Break".
You'll hear the stories of, I put a set of stock rods in my 700HP engine with a 250 shot of NOS and never had a rod failure.
While in some cases you may have a slim chance to get away with it, you're taking your chances with a potential component failure.
I'm using this extreme example to make a point. A connecting rod isn't going to allow an engine to make any more power regardless of the upgrade. A connecting rod upgrade is kinda like buying engine failure insurance.

It is my opinion that in any high-performance engine at a minimum the connecting rods should be rebuilt/resized and new ARP Rod bolts installed.
Beyond that I agree with the good points that jeepxj3 made. It's not cost-efficient to make any additional upgrades to the stock rod because of the substantial improvement of a version of the Scat Rod at minimal cost increase.

Now to make a case for a bushed rod so we can run a floating pin as opposed to pressfit.
1. When you rebuild a connecting rod, you'll be changing the center to center and shortening the rod. In some cases it can create a variance between the rods
2. Because now the pin is able to float, the load is more evenly applied to the piston pin and wrist pin bores in the piston.
3. When a pressfit pin is installed, it's necessary to heat the small end of the rod and chill the pin just before assembly.
When the small of the bore cools, the pin is secured because of the interference fit.
When a piston is installed with a press fit pin if for any reason it needs to be removed, damage to the piston is a
possibility.
4. Cost and time saving of being able to install the pistons yourself.

To give some perspective on costs.
I sell the the Scat Rod bushed for a .927 pin for $350.00
If purchased with a set of my Pistons I'll discount the price to
$325.00


Russ Pottenger
Bishop-Buehl Racing Engines

[Hussler]

Russ do you double check the scat rods as jsawdusty mentioned? Do you balance them with the Pistons before you send them out?

Not trying to save money, I just try to not piss it away.

Are the stock rods not capable of being converted to floating? If that's so then I would just go with the scats.

[Russ Pottenger]

Jim,
They'll go out the door pin fit, match balanced
ready to drop in.

As John stated I make a keyed spacer that correctly spaces out the vibration dampener on the long snout 258 cranks.
When you send your Crankshaft out tell them to grind it on the high, or large end of the tolerance.

[Hussler]

Okay well that just makes great sense then. Then I just bring the Pistons with rods attached and crank to my local guy to be balanced.

Also because threads are boring without pics, this is what the jeep looked like when I bought it 5 years ago.


And this is what it looks like today
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I know I've been asking a lot of questions here and this one got a little lost, with the 99 up intake manifold I can use my old fuel rail correct? Are the Ford 19lb injectors I already have not enough?

[jsawduste]

Thanks Russ !

Jim, by old rail are you speaking of OBD1 with the return port ?

The rails are interchangeable between the years. The issue is controlling fuel pressure. I like to use the return style OBD1 rail and an adjustable FPR.

One trick I like is to bring the fuel in at "6 and out st ""1. Little fab work involved but not to bad.

[Hussler]

Yes the old obd1 rail that's on the jeep now.

Should I buy the Hesco fuel regulator for the obd1 fuel rail and 24lb injectors? or stick with the 19lb injectors?

[jsawduste]

The Hesco FPR is a good unit.

Like Accel 24ibers. Not the cheapest but good stuff.

[Russ Pottenger]

Got some nice tube work on your XJ Jim, and like the mini boatsides.

Your Pistons will come match balanced and rods end to end.
Your Crankshaft will be balanced independently of all of its components (reciprocating assembly).
The procedure I use to balance my Jeep cranks is to balance the crankshaft to a neutral position,
then bolt the dampener and flywheel on the crank and then neutral balance them.
It's not necessary, but I do it anyways. : )

[Hussler]

Thanks Russ, and good eye on the boatsides, I trimmed 1 1/2" off the doors but few people catch that.

They just weigh the Pistons then match the crank on a balancer correct? I'll make sure to bring the flywheel. This is my first "performance" rotating assembly. My boat just got the H/C/I treatment and a standard bottom end rebuild that, knock on wood, sees the north side of 5k rpm a lot over these last 3 years.

I guess I should post the driving force behind this rebuild, my 16' 1965 Correct Craft Mustang. The Jeep has been at the wayside because I've been rebuilding the boat for the last 3 years which can be seen here.

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/fo ... tang-build

And a couple pics for those too lazy to check it out lol