Dollars per HP

[gradon]

I got the info from their recommended tuning guide, not the ftc brochure.
Go to split sec. go to tuning guide tab, and then download the u-tune.pdf:
"Now if this pulsed signal is intercepted and delayed before it is allowed to
continue to the ECU we can change when the spark plugs are fired. If we delay
it a little we can retard the ignition timing. If we delay it a whole bunch, say 350
degrees, we can end up making the spark plugs fire 10 degrees sooner, making
it advance the ignition timing."

[Plechtan]

I think the unichip can advance or retard timing. The crank sensor could be mechanically advanced, then you could use the FTC1 to retard the advanced sensor. Both hesco and Advance adapters make kits to move the crank trigger to the Harmonic ballancer, so you could eaisly advance the sensor. The kit cost more than $300 so the whole thing could get expensive.

I am not sure, but if you just screw around with the crank signal, and ignore the cam signal the ECU could get confused. maybe taking the timing away from the ECU and doing it seperately with somthing like the megajolt http://www.autosportlabs.com/ Click on the store tab. Its only $149.00 plus some junkyard parts. It does not address adjusting the map sensor, but you will have total control over the timing and a wasted spark system

[Comanche91]

I've done that already and the results are hardly mind-blowing, and not even close to Hesco's super-overinflated dyno numbers. Then again, that's exactly what i expected if you remember what i said in the EAP thread.

So you're saying the Hesco lies and deliberately calibrates their dyno to show "super-overinflated dyno numbers"? I think that's a really dumbass thing to say and it's your opinion only. Since day one w. my stroker I've had a dyno run everytime I did a major mod that affected performance. Like the exhaust install (Mike Leach headers w. 2.5 duals all the way back), bored throttle body and intake mods, 01 intake manifold install, then Unichip. It's been a nice steady progression of peak HP and torque from the day one Peak Torque / HP vs. RPM wheel readings of 182.4HP/228.7 @ 4250RPM to the last results I posted HERE. And ALL the runs were on the same freekin' dyno! They are required to have their dyno calibrated every six months. Stroked I6's are only a small portion of engines they built and tune; from 2-stroke Saabs all the way up to Ferrari's, NASCAR engines and Formula I cars. I have a lot of respect for what you have done for the stroker community Dino, but to make statements like that you must have your head up a UAE camel's butt. Come on over to 'Bama and take a tour of the Hesco facility; I think you'll be impressed.

[1bolt]

I know we've all talked about this before but it never seems to come to a head (until now). No offense, but I agree with Dino IMHO HESCO's dyno is quite "proud" of reality, Calibration only means the dyno is capable of being accurate to within a couple foot pounds. The dyno operator can (intentionally or unintentionally) make anything appear more powerful than it really is, just by changing the rate of acceleration while the computer corrects for a slightly different rate. Among other variables that can be accidentally or habitually or intentionally "tweaked" to make something look more impressive. I like Lee Hurley his willingness to talk about his own Jeep I6 findings makes him a good guy in my book. His "slow dime better than a quick nickel" business philosophy doesn't do anything to make me a HESCO fan, but the man has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about our engine.

Anyway as far as evidence goes; I've said it before, but basic stock 4.0 ain't putting down 182 horses at the wheels if I'm remembering wrong and thats a flywheel number you are quoting then I will admit I'm wrong, 182 is something I'd expect to see at the flywheel. It's a LOT more than 99% of the stock 4.0 chassis (wheel) dyno numbers I've seen.

I've never seen anyone post a dyno of a stock 4.0 making even 150 wheel hp, let alone 182.

HESCO doesn't have to lie or deliberately calibrate their dyno to provide inflated numbers that make their customers happy, and their parts appear more impressive.... they only need to have a bad habit, or tendency to accelerate at a non SAE rate while the computer corrects for an SAE standard rate of acceleration.

Or someone is just a little ham handed and wants the customers to feel good when they buy HESCO's diamond encrusted performance parts. Pick a scenario it doesn't have to be malicious.

BTW I've also always suspected that their Stroker power numbers were inflated (along with Golen's) 264 horses = 72 horses gained from a .7 liter increase in displacement... I doubt that with a streetable cam. As mentioned earlier in this thread with the right cam you can cut the balls off of any engine and move the torque peak to the right far enough to make a nice pretty HP number... Just look at Honda's... they put out less torque than my weed eater, but they are always advertizing 200-250 horse power from a 4 banger, sure it's up somewhere in the 5 digit RPM's like 11,000 where almost no one will ever rev to it, but it sure sells cars!

[the_wrench116]

HEY HEY HEY you leave that poor little HONDA alone. i'm building a 98 civic coup with an H22 190 hp 160 tq 2.2L at the crank.

JK i know for comparison purposes you had to pick on someone. in your defence i think your right most hondas don't have any tq none of the honda\acura motors have ever had more tq then hp untill the factory turboed one of them. acura RDX scoots like a scalded cat 240hp 260tq.

and as far as dynos go they are good for showing a gain or loss of power or for tuning and thats all imho. hence the term dyno queen! makes 1600hp but you have a hard time driving it on the street cause its got no tq or cant idle or wont hook up or ......

end of hijack

[Cheromaniac]

Since day one w. my stroker I've had a dyno run everytime I did a major mod that affected performance. Like the exhaust install (Mike Leach headers w. 2.5 duals all the way back), bored throttle body and intake mods, 01 intake manifold install, then Unichip. It's been a nice steady progression of peak HP and torque from the day one Peak Torque / HP vs. RPM wheel readings of 182.4HP/228.7 @ 4250RPM to the last results I posted HERE. And ALL the runs were on the same freekin' dyno!

I'm not doubting your word but I AM sceptical about some of the HP claims that Hesco make. Dyno operators can manipulate a number of things to make a product appear to produce a bigger HP gain that it really does, so dynoes can indeed lie. One thing that never lies is the 1/4 mile timeslip so that's the real proof of the pudding. In my case I gained 0.3mph and 0.1sec to the 1/4 mile (before and after numbers were DA corrected) with the newer intake.

[Comanche91]

Anyway as far as evidence goes; I've said it before, but basic stock 4.0 ain't putting down 182 horses at the wheels if I'm remembering wrong and thats a flywheel number you are quoting then I will admit I'm wrong, 182 is something I'd expect to see at the flywheel. It's a LOT more than 99% of the stock 4.0 chassis (wheel) dyno numbers I've seen.

I've never seen anyone post a dyno of a stock 4.0 making even 150 wheel hp, let alone 182.

The 182.4HP/228.7 @ 4250 RPM reading was the first dyno run for the fresh stroker engine before any mods, not a stock engine. That's about the average for your basic 4.6L stroker, right? Plus the AW4 doesn't help............

[1bolt]

well that certainly makes more sense... While I'm sceptical of HESCO's dyno claims in general I can definitely see a good dyno tuned aftemarket fuel/spark setup gaining the power you saw with your unichip. Using optimal (i.e. not factory) spark curve in EAP is worth a pretty similar bump.

Dino I'm curious, I can't recall what header you have... part of the improvement with the 99+ intake is the factory exhaust manifold with longer smaller diameter runners and better ports of the 0331 head. As in when I run it in EAP on a 7120 head and stock 99 and earlier exhaust it has fairly marginal hp gains (but very good torque gains when looking at average torque, NOT necessarily peak torque), when I change the exhaust to simulate the iron manifold's longer and smaller primaries and the heads smaller (higher velocity) exhaust ports though things get jumping... like I can't remember exactly but EAP thinks it's worth close to 20hp and 25 foot pounds (give or take). I'd guess the factory had the 0331 "system" designed to counteract the losses from the aggressive emissions tune, the more fuel economy oriented cam and added cats.

The mileage improvement (as you know) is related to the big average torque bump that the 99+ gives. Peak torque numbers still seem to be a little low though.

[Comanche91]

well that certainly makes more sense... While I'm sceptical of HESCO's dyno claims in general I can definitely see a good dyno tuned aftemarket fuel/spark setup gaining the power you saw with your unichip. Using optimal (i.e. not factory) spark curve in EAP is worth a pretty similar bump.

Hey Simon, notice I finally got a new Reflexxion cowl hood on? That should be good for an additional 10-20 horses right? Maybe I should make a speed run down to Hesco and do another dyno run.............

[1bolt]

yeah I saw your old hood on Ebay, can't be another super clean gray MJ in Bama with that much chrome! looks sweet In all seriousness with your level of mods you might just get 15 -20 horses if you seal a high flow filter to the cowl opening like mine used to be.

I think you have a K&N FIPK right? I was running down the road today watching my intake temps... under hood cone filter is worth 60 degrees of extra heat ON THE HIGHWAY at a steady 65 mph... Even more than that, 70 degrees hotter intake charge going slower around 35-45 mph. 80 to 100 in city driving... That is breathing underhood air 80* day temps were 135-144 @ 65 inside the intake tube... worse than that inside the manifold.

10* cooler intake charge = 1% gain in power, 60* = 6% on a 250 hp stroker = 15 hp

Now consider most of your stop light launches with be closer to 100* or more hotter than ambient temp... that's a 10% or 25hp bump for not very much money. Talk about dollars per HP... of course I built mine out of a old hood I had laying around, so the only thing I paid for was about $25 AEM Dryflow filter off ebay...

[Cheromaniac]

Dino I'm curious, I can't recall what header you have... part of the improvement with the 99+ intake is the factory exhaust manifold with longer smaller diameter runners and better ports of the 0331 head.

I have a DIY-ported 7120 head, Borla 6-2-1 header (1.5" diameter primaries) modified with bigger 3" collector, 3" downpipe (more like 2.75"), Flowmaster center muffler, Magnaflow rear muffler, 2.5" tailpipe. The exhaust basically tapers down to a smaller size from the front to the rear.

[Comanche91]

Yes Simon, I have the K&N FIPK w. a big dry Amsoil filter like below, and have been thinking about relocating it at the cowl inake as you mentioned. It's shielded pretty well w. the K&N heat shield, and the Amsoil filter is an inverted cone filter, so most of the air comes thru the grill openings (at speed) into the filter, but does nothing crawling around in traffic. But I know that's not as cold as the air would be coming in at the cowl. Gojeep had a nice setup for his intake filter on his site too as you mentioned, but can't seem to find it right now.......

[Comanche91]

Gojeep had a nice setup for his intake filter on his site too as you mentioned, but can't seem to find it right now.......

Marcus just sent me the link. Sweet intake setup and fits right in with this topic.

http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoAirFilter.htm

In all seriousness with your level of mods you might just get 15 -20 horses if you seal a high flow filter to the cowl opening like mine used to be.

Also, Simon, I just read your build of the cowl intake and box - ingenious. May I ask why it's now "used to be"?

[1bolt]

Because the hood had issues where I didn't gusset it, flexing from slamming it cause the bondo to crack, so I decided to repair it, and since I was painting my Comanche at the time and wanted to do another hood for the Stroked XJ, I swapped it to the MJ redid the body work and painted it:

Tan and black is the 4.6, my MJ, 1965 289 and my Wifes XJ, and a little closer shot of the hood.


Definitely planing another hood actually half way done just halted due to a million other things I need to do... Man I wish life would stop interfering with my toys

[Comanche91]

Definitely planing another hood actually half way done just halted due to a million other things I need to do... Man I wish life would stop interfering with my toys

Yeah, unfortunately life gets in the way sometimes. So I guess you'll reuse your modded air box in the XJ? That's some excellent work and had to be very time consuming to make fit. Your cowl hood looks like it will not interfere with the right side wiper as the cowl does not extend back toward the windshield as the Reflexxion hood does. You would think they would have thought of this before releasing the final product. That's the first thing I'll need to fix by either lowering the wiper post or modding the wiper arm socket. Then relocate the intake. Thanks!