Stock valve springs with Comp 231 cam?

[bbarrett]

Im not trying to start any kind of argument here, But these are the FACTS i have. I personally put a stock 4.0 spring in a (high dollar) Performance spring checker. These were used springs so im not going to give any numbers as of what pressures they were at height. But they will go to .550 lift before coil bind. The retainer will get into the valve seal retainer (.525) before the spring will go into coil bind.

[stege123]

I am building an 0331 head at the moment, and gonna use it with the comp cam and 4.6 stroker. So is it possible to run it with factory springs (rarely rev over 4000rpm, auto trans) or do i need the mopar springs ? For me it is not clear if anybody used the stock setup and had good result, and most important a good running and reliable engine.

[bbarrett]

I am building an 0331 head at the moment, and gonna use it with the comp cam and 4.6 stroker. So is it possible to run it with factory springs (rarely rev over 4000rpm, auto trans) or do i need the mopar springs ? For me it is not clear if anybody used the stock setup and had good result, and most important a good running and reliable engine.

I used the stock springs that had about 70k miles on them. I run the 505 cam, I don't have the specs in front of me at this time to compare it to the comp, But i have had no problems. I now have over 2k miles racked up. I do have the rev box set to 3800, So i cant say where valve float would take place, Although it is after 3800. Now for an opinion. I personally don't like the comp stuff, Never found their cams to be, shall we say on the mark. Unless you order the " Race Grind" You will be getting a out of the box cam. Which all the ones Ive checked are not even close cylinder to cylinder. If you just have to have the 231s specs, Call Bullett cams or one of the other smaller cam companies and get one ground to the 231s profile. But i would suggest not to use the 231s profile as it is a very old cam that modern technology passed years back.

[stege123]

bbarrett thanks for your reply. Obvious you did a lot more cam work than i did. All aroud several forums you read good things about CompCams. Now they hav a FI variant available, so i bought this one, confinced the Comp company is a decent company with their tooling up to par. I onderstand using the stock springs is not an issue

[mendelmax]

So wait, have I understood correctly, that 0.430 is NOT the limit of stock springs? Because I'm using stock renix cam, with stock springs, and I seriously considered upgrade to 1.7 rockers. Till now I was sure this would require spring change because of maximum lift the spring can handle, but if it's not the case, then I assume I'm good to go? With such mild profile as renix has, valve float shouldn't be a problem either....

[bbarrett]

So wait, have I understood correctly, that 0.430 is NOT the limit of stock springs? Because I'm using stock renix cam, with stock springs, and I seriously considered upgrade to 1.7 rockers. Till now I was sure this would require spring change because of maximum lift the spring can handle, but if it's not the case, then I assume I'm good to go? With such mild profile as renix has, valve float shouldn't be a problem either....

The stock springs i checked would go over .550 lift without coil bind, The retainer will actually bottom out at .525 lift. I would check the springs i had, Because I'm sure there were several different ones. Mine came off a 0630 head out of a 96 model Cherokee.

[mendelmax]

Well, I have the ones from 93 ZJ, with 7120 head. but yet, 1.7 rocker will give only 0.450", so still far before the border you reached

[4.whoa]

Just to be curious, why spend the $400 or so on rockers when you can get a cam for half that? Granted its more work to put it in, but iirc you will have to machine the bosses (most likely depending on which rockers you get) and/ or use a vc spacer and the different t-stat housing to clear it . $$$$ Also alum rockers have a "lifespan" so eventually (anyones guess to how long ) they will need replacing. Depending on the cam,you wouldn't even have to change the springs anyway.

[stroked'73]

Awhile back I tested a couple of 4.0 springs in a not-so-high dollar checker and came up with similar results as bbarrett. I posted them in a thread in the projects forum last year and dug it up to paste here:

I tested a couple stock springs today - one from a 94 and one from an 89. I recorded the clearances for the rated .430" lift and for .485" lift - which is the max lift on the comp 231-4. Then I recorded coilbind. I used the retainer with a bolt thru and a large washer and nut on the bottom and tightened it to get the "valve lift" heights. I measured from the top of the bolt to the bottom of the nut and corrected the calipers to get 2" on the free height. (Both the springs measured 2".) Here's what I found:

Renix spring: @ .430" lift, .065" clearance
@ .485" lift, .030" clearance
coil bind @ 1.065"

H.O. spring: @ .430" lift, .050" clearance
@ .485" lift, .025" clearance
coil bind @ 1.090"

Another guy in that same thread also posted similar results.
I ran those stock springs in my stroker with the 231 cam for a few years without an issue and had it up to 4500 more than a few times, but never pushed it further than that. A few guys over at naxja have also ran stock springs with similar cams without issues. I now have the mopar springs. I'm not sure if it's because I was hesitant to rev it up far with the stockers or not, but it seems to rev up quicker now.

[ronald2009]

Part No.P5249464 is for the springs, part no. P4452032 Mopar 2.2,8 DEGREES keepers, part no. P4529218 for the retainers. i used this set up for my 4.7 stroker and my mopar cam. works great

Ive been searching on here for springs, retainers and keepers for a 231 cam. I have found the above part numbers are recommended alot on various threads. When I looked them up on summit, the keepers are 8 degree and the retainers are 7 degree. I called summit tech support and they verified that the info was accurate. They recommended Comp Cams 623-12 keepers which are 7 degree. Anyone else run into this or have any advice?

[dwg86]

Good luck trying to figure out these Jeep springs, retainers, and keepers. I have read the valves are 8mm and then I read they are 5/16. The same with the keepers, I have read 8 and 7 degree. The Jeep keepers have a round lock and it's close to the top. I haven't seen any other keeper like it. The valve tips don't have much sticking out above the groove, therefore it's hard to find any aftermarket keeper to work.
I really don't think there is an inexpensive valve/ spring solution to the Jeep valve spring issue (over 450 lift). The Mopar performance springs have a pretty high installed rate and the bigger diameter spring retainer will hit the valve cover (I know this from experience).
It's probably best to talk to your machinist and figure out what valve/spring combo to use. Know matter what you do you will probably have to have valve pockets machined, valve guides machined, or different valves all together installed (LS or SBC).
If you figure out any other options please let us know.

[marcusofmagna]

Well I find this all very interesting but am curious about the knowledge levels of both gentlemen stating that the Comp recommended springs have too high a rate. While I would agree that may be true for stock rocker arms, I don't think of Comp as being that "willy nilly" about their recommendations. I do also agree finding the right set up is a pain. I purchased the 68-232-4 cam and the recommended springs, 10 degree locks and retainers which took me some time to find as they don't seem to be too liberal with such info. I did bite the bullet and also purchased YT roller rockers due to the high spring rate though. Definitely worth giving some thought to the whole picture.