That's my buddy James' engine in his TJ. After driving it a few years ago I ended up going with the same setup except I bought the kit and assembled the engine myself.
I only have about 50 miles on it so far but am very pleased with the performance. It was not the cheap way to do it but I was lazy and didn't want to run into any issues down the road(such as pinging) since I really didn't(and don't) know much about putting together my own kit.
I know lots of guys will argue the small block transplant is the way to go - but as was said, start pricing things, check your locality for legality, and think it again. Lots of the smoke in the argument is assuming you could put a Engine Masters Competition 400(M) in your Cherokee, CJ, or Wrangler - and that's really NOT going to happen.
Sure the sb stuff is cheaper to build up a great motor, but you have to do almost a complete driveline transplant to get high hp to the tire without breaking stuff constantly. Plus the logistics of any changeover, even if to a carb, adds lots of extra cost changes to the project, like: bellhousing bolt patterns,clutch/flexplate compatibily, motor mounts, fuel line hookup and pump pressure, intake air routing and air cleaner fitment, gas pedal linkage and hookup, exhaust manifolds, radiator hose rearrangement, fan shroud mods, larger radiator, trans line hookups, wiring loom mods, heater hose routing, firewall interference, steering interference, power steering hose hookups, oil pan interference, fenderwell interference, etc. Gee, every web page with pics I've seen talks about those nighmare moments ad infinitum. I'll pass.
For the hp/torque, I'll put up with a CR issue by unshrouding the valves on the chamber wall and other needed improvements. It's less complicated than the horror stories of small block cam and valvetrain incompatibility from too many aftermarket parts not selected properly - and the lack of choices for the 4.0 does narrow down the range of "oops."
And, if you ever sell it, you don't lose much value - but a transplant is a virtual loss of the entire vehicle because nobody wants to buy a "butcher job" no matter how professionally it was done. Priced a sbc 350 in a Jag lately? Pop the hood on a rebuilt stroker and nobody cares - which is what the sb guys are really after - Oooo, Look At What I Did With All That Money!
Not trying to rant, just introduce some more factors to consider when somebody comes by researching a decision. I've made mine.
Tirod I couldn't agree more, too many present the small block engine swap as 600 dollars at the junk yard for a 350 chevy and a long weekend with the guys in the driveway. Its a total myth even if you WANT a unrebuilt 350. No one ever adds in the giant pile of parts needed, an entire drive train, headers, plumbing.
Also don't forget you'll spend a couple hundred just at the hardware store for misc nuts and bolts, a can of this, and a tube of that.
And who's going to put a junk yard motor in without 200 bucks worth of tune up parts?
After all of the building of your (no one in particular) stroker is done and you go through the painfully slow process of reaching the 500 mile break in period (assuming you do it right) and you find a lonely stretch of blacktop to use to test your beast...stop and think about it for a minute before mashing the skinny pedal to the floor. Your 4.XL motor is not a 300+CI V8. There I said it. Yes I built my own motor and yes I was very pleased with the performance...before the cam failed. All things considered, would I build another one? Yes.
To often us gear heads get wrapped up in the numbers. Not the $$, but the HP and Torque numbers we see on a website or hear about from a friend of a friend. Let’s get realistic for a moment and be totally honest with ourselves. How many of us have actually dyno'd our strokers in an "As Wheeled" condition? How many have taken their 35" shod rock crawler to the local chassis dyno and handed over the keys. Now out of that small group, how many have seen and can prove huge numbers at the rear wheels? Did anyone even make the stock mark of 190HP? How about your torque numbers? Better than expected or worse?
For those of us that live at altitude and have dyno'd our rigs... the results were a biter pill to swallow. Like many others I dreamt of big numbers...and just didn't see them. Why? Did I put the wrong cam in? Did I not degree it properly? 24lb injectors too small or too big? Do I need to invest in a XXmm throttle body?
Well my gears are the right ratio for my tires (4.88's & 35's). Tranny is an AW4 auto, legendary among Jeepers and Toyota Celica owners alike.
"So what the hell is up with the numbers?" You ask. Two simple reasons.
Number 1.) Air. Yep, air. I've got an OBDII motor and the PCM does a great job of monitoring the engine performance based on all of the input it receives from both O2 sensors, the MAP Sensor. Still don't get it? I'll give you a hint...6011'.
Figure it out yet?
Altitude. Colorado Springs sits at 6011' above sea level. When we head into the high country the change in altitude robs even more power. Consider your geographic location when having your rig dyno'd. How's the humidity? It will most certainly have an affect on your numbers.
Number 2.) Air...in much larger tires. Don't get bummed out if you don't see massive increases in the HP and Torque numbers over a stock rig. Stock rigs run a tire that is 29" tall. Mine are 6" taller and almost twice as wide and that my friends adds up to a lot of weight. Spinning rubber that size requires some serious power.
So before you pull up onto the chassis dyno have your checklist of questions in hand to ask the operator. Will his equipment give you actual HP and Torque numbers? Will it correct for altitude? What gear will he be using? (The correct answer for an AW4 is 3rd gear). Will the results be an average or will you get 3 separate results for 3 separate pulls? Will he be able to monitor the A/F ratio and show you where you're running rich or lean? Will he wait until the motor is at its normal operating temperature? Can you swap on a set of 29" tires while your rig is on the dyno?
Get your moneys worth fellas. Learn what your rig is really putting out....and don't go in with any expectations either way.
FrankZ wrote:How many of us have actually dyno'd our strokers in an "As Wheeled" condition? Now out of that small group, how many have seen and can prove huge numbers at the rear wheels? Did anyone even make the stock mark of 190HP? How about your torque numbers? Better than expected or worse?
Me for one with stock size 27.4" tires, stock 3.07 gears, and stock height suspension. Not huge numbers but I was happy considering they were about 30% above the average 155rwhp and 195rwtq from a stock 4.0 XJ. Even more important for me was the flat torque curve and having a shedload of low rev grunt.
Most guy's and gals don't consider the tire size when making their dyno runs. I may take some spare 30" rollers and see what kind of difference it makes. Gotta finish the rebuild first though.
If you were underwhelmed imagine how you would have felt if you had spent 3 grand on swapping a tired V8 and drive line in.
You can sum it up as "its all relative" the I6 will put out less HP and Torque at high altitude and/or with big drive line losses like big tires and sharp drive line angles... But so will a V8 A stock Chevy 350 from a late 80's Camaro will be putting out EVEN LESS with those same losses (swapped into the same Jeep). Because it started with less.
FrankZ wrote:Most guy's and gals don't consider the tire size when making their dyno runs. I may take some spare 30" rollers and see what kind of difference it makes. Gotta finish the rebuild first though.
My buddy with a 4 wheel dyno told me that the tire size won't mattter on the dyno-- it is all figured in--
FrankZ wrote:Most guy's and gals don't consider the tire size when making their dyno runs. I may take some spare 30" rollers and see what kind of difference it makes. Gotta finish the rebuild first though.
My buddy with a 4 wheel dyno told me that the tire size won't matter on the dyno-- it is all figured in--
It would be real interesting to test at a dyno with some big(heavy) of road tires and some small (light) 26-27" tall tires.
to prove it true or not.
I thing the smaller tires would win out.
The dyno test rear wheel HP........bigger tires will have less HP at the wheel.
The reason i say this is that when i went for 27" stock tires to 33/11.50/15 not only did i noticed a big difference in lack of power but it took a lot more relastate to stop the jeep too!
They may be able to figure in for diameter.....but mass is a crap shoot...........Yeah I'm just talking out by butt here, as i have never done a dyno run in my jeep, diesel or my Cuda
89 XJ with 300,000 on the original eng
"I've also never completed a motor, yet. My mouth (fingers) is also writing checks my ass can't cash."
gradon wrote:Oh man, what Cuda do you have(post pics please)?
It's a 70, 340 (318 orignal eng) runs good but it not worth of any kind of pic' here.
It pretty ruff around the edges, in side and out.......but is mine
I have to many project and plan, and not enough cash Which = A BUNCH OF HALF DONE HOPFULLS
Thanks for the complement!
Flash
89 XJ with 300,000 on the original eng
"I've also never completed a motor, yet. My mouth (fingers) is also writing checks my ass can't cash."
If I swapped in a v8, I'd get a beater truck so I'd have all the necessary parts - even axles if I wanted. To me, that'd be the only way to make it pay. Otherwise, it's like stated above - a nickel and dime show. Up here, you can find rotted trucks with decent miles for cheap and that's good for this kind of thing. I also have an old rig so swapping of any kind is much easier than with newer, more complex rigs. And I'm emmisions exempt - big plus. It actually would have been much cheaper and easier for me in this particular case to do the V8 thing.......................
......BUT, bottom line is I think a stroker is just plain cool. End of story. It's like a guy who puts a flathead into a 32 coupe - instead of a SBC like everyone else. It's just cool. I have an old 73 wagoneer, which is pretty cool by itself, but waaay cooler with an I-6 stroker in it! An old wagoneer with a 350? YAWN. Trying something different was worth all the extra dough I spent and continue to spend!! I'm guessing most of us here feel the same and built their motors for similar reasons to some degree or another.
Getting alot from an unlikely source - now that's cool.
