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Calculator...

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Muad'Dib
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Re: Calculator...

Post by Muad'Dib » June 13th, 2008, 2:43 pm

Ok so i have been working on changing the calculator to be able to calculate dynamic compression ratio.

If you look at the header, next to "RSS", you should see "Stroker CR Calculator".

This is a beta version, so please give me feedback on it!

I do have plans on adding another table for different cam specs to fill in the areas to the left similar to what the 4.2L bore/stroke area does.

Please provide feedback!

Thanks!

**EDIT**

Ok now that i have more time to post, i do have plans on adding more information to the right hand tables... but i need feedback and what specs to put there..

So for example Do we need more bore/ stroke options besides the 4.2L? What cam specs should we have? Common manufactures? If so, which onces, and what specs...

Also what information should i put as CC volume?

Does that make since?

Thanks again!
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Muad'Dib
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Re: Calculator...

Post by Muad'Dib » June 16th, 2008, 3:34 pm

Alpha 1 is now ready.

Thanks flash for having me add Quench.

I also made the # of cylinders modifiable just in case someone wants to use this for a different application.


Please provide feedback!

I still need what information you guys would like to see for where it says "Where do I find the combustion chamber volume?"

Thanks again!
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Flash
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Re: Calculator...

Post by Flash » June 16th, 2008, 8:17 pm

Muad'Dib wrote:Alpha 1 is now ready.

Thanks flash for having me add Quench.

I also made the # of cylinders modifiable just in case someone wants to use this for a different application.


Please provide feedback!

I still need what information you guys would like to see for where it says "Where do I find the combustion chamber volume?"

Thanks again!
Your welcome, glad i could help.

the problem with head cc is that most of us that have cc a 4.0L head come up with 57-58cc but if you look in a 89 jeep factory service manual(chry) It said that the combustion chamber volume is 64.45" too 67.45"
Now i have a spare 89 4.0L head, which i highly dought that has been shaved. it was 57cc combustion volume before i polish the combustion chamber.
I have yet to here of any one that has cc there head that got more then 59cc before they started cleaning then up.

So for the time being i would leave the message about the link, and someday we will have hashed out the cc until we feel they are factual and enter then in the head section. then just link it to that.
Just my thoughts here.
Please fill free to voice yours.

Flash
89 XJ with 300,000 on the original eng

"I've also never completed a motor, yet. My mouth (fingers) is also writing checks my ass can't cash."

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Muad'Dib
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Re: Calculator...

Post by Muad'Dib » June 20th, 2008, 10:52 am

Flash wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:Alpha 1 is now ready.

Thanks flash for having me add Quench.

I also made the # of cylinders modifiable just in case someone wants to use this for a different application.


Please provide feedback!

I still need what information you guys would like to see for where it says "Where do I find the combustion chamber volume?"

Thanks again!
Your welcome, glad i could help.

the problem with head cc is that most of us that have cc a 4.0L head come up with 57-58cc but if you look in a 89 jeep factory service manual(chry) It said that the combustion chamber volume is 64.45" too 67.45"
Now i have a spare 89 4.0L head, which i highly dought that has been shaved. it was 57cc combustion volume before i polish the combustion chamber.
I have yet to here of any one that has cc there head that got more then 59cc before they started cleaning then up.

So for the time being i would leave the message about the link, and someday we will have hashed out the cc until we feel they are factual and enter then in the head section. then just link it to that.
Just my thoughts here.
Please fill free to voice yours.

Flash
Sounds like a good plan to me.

Well .. Alpha 2 release is now ready for use.

The calculator should be more accurate taking into account that the bore of the head gasket is not the same as the cylinder bore.. which made the numbers slighty higher then what they should be.

Please test this baby out!!

I would also like to have a table set up with aftermarket cams.. This is the information i need:

Manufacturer / model number
Intake Duration
Lobe Seperation angle
and if the cam has an advance or retard.


Your guys feedback is important to me.
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Muad'Dib
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Posts: 1494
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Location: Bend, Oregon
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Re: Calculator...

Post by Muad'Dib » June 24th, 2008, 11:26 am

Again, Flash has been very helpful in letting me know what is needed for this calculator.

Alpha 3 is now available via the link in the header (next to FAQ).

The calculator should now take into account cam advance / retard even if you only give the calculator an IVC angle.

I have still yet to figure out the math for including altitude into this equation. So if anyone has any input, then please SPEAK UP... Your feedback is important to me.

I want you all to test this calculator to the fullest extent, so i can make sure it is 100% accurate, and is exactly what we need.


Thanks for your time.
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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SilverXJ
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Re: Calculator...

Post by SilverXJ » June 24th, 2008, 3:21 pm

Question regarding the cam specs.

When I enter the Intake duration and lob separation I get a different numbers for DCR than when I input just the intake valve clostin angle. The number I am entering are:
Intake valve duration: 250
Lobe separation: 111
Intake closing angle: 30...

however one thing that I realized now is that the valve closing angle is @ .050.. which I don't understand. If it is closed how could be at .050" lift?

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Muad'Dib
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Posts: 1494
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Location: Bend, Oregon
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Re: Calculator...

Post by Muad'Dib » June 24th, 2008, 3:57 pm

SilverXJ wrote:Question regarding the cam specs.

When I enter the Intake duration and lob separation I get a different numbers for DCR than when I input just the intake valve clostin angle. The number I am entering are:
Intake valve duration: 250
Lobe separation: 111
Intake closing angle: 30...

however one thing that I realized now is that the valve closing angle is @ .050.. which I don't understand. If it is closed how could be at .050" lift?
That could be the problem with the specs you were given. If they gave you specs @.050, then you should use the LSA, and Duration values instead.

My 2c
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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Flash
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Re: Calculator...

Post by Flash » June 24th, 2008, 9:10 pm

Muad'Dib wrote:
SilverXJ wrote:Question regarding the cam specs.

When I enter the Intake duration and lob separation I get a different numbers for DCR than when I input just the intake valve clostin angle. The number I am entering are:
Intake valve duration: 250
Lobe separation: 111
Intake closing angle: 30...

however one thing that I realized now is that the valve closing angle is @ .050.. which I don't understand. If it is closed how could be at .050" lift?
That could be the problem with the specs you were given. If they gave you specs @.050, then you should use the LSA, and Duration values instead.

My 2c
The lobe separation angle "LCA" would be a valid number, but the duration is still a, @ .050" number. It will not be accurate..........................
If you go to KB's site they have a DCR Calc that does the math with @.050"

The problem i have with @.050 calc is that they have to guess when the valve actually closes instead of when it is closed. Depending on the lobe ramp angle there can be many degrees different in them last .050" before it is at rest.
a stock cam might have a Ramp Rate 2.XX were as most aftermarket cams will have a Ramp Rate of 3.00(mild) to 6.00(most likely a Roller cam). And the start and end of the lobe (@.050) could be aggressive for a mild ramp and visa versa......................
Using a calc that figures it up @.050 will get yeah close, but its will be off......and in what direction :huh:

I have found a couple cam spec that gave both @.050" and SEAT to SEAT (advertised) and they never come out the same number between the two calc.
If all you have is the @.050 spec. then KB's seams to be the close calc. for the cams we deal with........................

Muad'Dib, I haven't done much testing of the Advance/Retard feature yet, but i will let yeah know when i do.

Flash
89 XJ with 300,000 on the original eng

"I've also never completed a motor, yet. My mouth (fingers) is also writing checks my ass can't cash."

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Re: Calculator...

Post by Flash » June 28th, 2008, 11:05 pm

Please test this baby out!!

I would also like to have a table set up with aftermarket cams.. This is the information i need:

Manufacturer / model number
Intake Duration
Lobe Seperation angle
and if the cam has an advance or retard.


Your guys feedback is important to me.
I have tested the advance/retard, seam to be working perfect!

Here is the Renix cam spec that i have!
advertised duration int /exh.............................270*/270*
Lobe separation angle....................................112*
Int lobe separation is-------------------------------------120*
Advance/retard is ------------------------------------ -8*
IVC..........................................................75*

COMP 68-231-4
..............................................................250*/256*
--------------------------------------------------------------111.5
--------------------------------------------------------------111.0
----------------------------------------------------------- 0.5*
------------------------------------------------------------- 56*

CRANE 753901
------------------------------------------------------------ 260/272
----------------------------------------------------------- 111*
----------------------------------------------------------- 113*
-------------------------------------------------------- -2*
---------------------------------------------------------- 63

That what your looking for?
If so i have a few more.....................
any body disagree with theses numbers............ :?:


Flash
89 XJ with 300,000 on the original eng

"I've also never completed a motor, yet. My mouth (fingers) is also writing checks my ass can't cash."

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SilverXJ
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Re: Calculator...

Post by SilverXJ » June 29th, 2008, 7:50 am

The data for the 68-231-4 is wrong.
I/E duration:250/258
Lobe separation: 111
IVC: 30

I have a PDF of 12 pages that lists a bunch of cams and some of their specs. I don't know where it came from, but it is called Appendix 12. Also, I believe DIno has somethign similar on hits sit someplace.

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Re: Calculator...

Post by Flash » June 29th, 2008, 1:54 pm

SilverXJ wrote:The data for the 68-231-4 is wrong.
I/E duration:250/258
Lobe separation: 111
IVC: 30

I have a PDF of 12 pages that lists a bunch of cams and some of their specs. I don't know where it came from, but it is called Appendix 12. Also, I believe DIno has somethign similar on hits sit someplace.
Verify, and changed my info, thanks ;) ..................How ever, my calc said that IVC is 52

30 is IVC @.050...........I know, it said...., "Valve Timing @ 0.006" Lift:"But, them spec's are @.050

Advertise is IVO 18 IVC 52 EVO 64 EVC 14
@.050 IS IVO -4 IVC 30 EVO 42 EVC -18

If this is not correct, show me what I'm doing wrong please.

Muad'Dib, i have thought of another feature the would be nice on this calc.
When you put Cam intake duration and Cam lobe separation angle: it would be nice to know what IVC SPEC them two number creates not just the DCR it makes.
The Spec's discuss above would be easier to verify if we knew what the EVC spec was for duration/separation entered :idea:

I would rather be Wrong, and be corected then to mislead those with spec's that i thought was right!


Flash
89 XJ with 300,000 on the original eng

"I've also never completed a motor, yet. My mouth (fingers) is also writing checks my ass can't cash."

User avatar
Muad'Dib
Site Admin / Owner
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Posts: 1494
Joined: January 8th, 2008, 10:55 am
Stroker Displacement: 4.7L
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Vehicle Model: Cherokee
Location: Bend, Oregon
Contact:

Re: Calculator...

Post by Muad'Dib » June 30th, 2008, 2:08 pm

Flash wrote:
Please test this baby out!!

I would also like to have a table set up with aftermarket cams.. This is the information i need:

Manufacturer / model number
Intake Duration
Lobe Seperation angle
and if the cam has an advance or retard.


Your guys feedback is important to me.
I have tested the advance/retard, seam to be working perfect!

Here is the Renix cam spec that i have!
advertised duration int /exh.............................270*/270*
Lobe separation angle....................................112*
Int lobe separation is-------------------------------------120*
Advance/retard is ------------------------------------ -8*
IVC..........................................................75*

COMP 68-231-4
..............................................................250*/256*
--------------------------------------------------------------111.5
--------------------------------------------------------------111.0
----------------------------------------------------------- 0.5*
------------------------------------------------------------- 56*

CRANE 753901
------------------------------------------------------------ 260/272
----------------------------------------------------------- 111*
----------------------------------------------------------- 113*
-------------------------------------------------------- -2*
---------------------------------------------------------- 63

That what your looking for?
If so i have a few more.....................
any body disagree with theses numbers............ :?:


Flash
Yes Flash thats what im looking for if those specs are correct AND those are the Cams that most people use/want to use or are the most common.

Ive been very busy with some projects at work, so i may not get to this for a few days, but i definetly will.
Flash wrote:Muad'Dib, i have thought of another feature the would be nice on this calc.
When you put Cam intake duration and Cam lobe separation angle: it would be nice to know what IVC SPEC them two number creates not just the DCR it makes.
The Spec's discuss above would be easier to verify if we knew what the EVC spec was for duration/separation entered :idea:

I would rather be Wrong, and be corected then to mislead those with spec's that i thought was right!


Flash
Do you have some math for me on how to calculate the IVC angle from Duration and LSA? If so, i dont see why that would be a problem.
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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SilverXJ
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Re: Calculator...

Post by SilverXJ » June 30th, 2008, 3:28 pm

Here is that cam data file that I mentioned. I don't remember where I got it from nor if it is correct.

http://jeep.blackonyx.net/forum/CamData.pdf

-Chris

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Re: Calculator...

Post by Flash » July 1st, 2008, 9:09 am

Hmmm well, Muad'Dib, i guess I'm not understanding how you get the DCR number :(
You need to know how far the piston has traveled up the bore when the IVC closes right?

Is it a matter of change changing you spec from, say valve closing 1.2" up the bore Equate IVC at say 72*??????

I don't now how to figure out DCR (and what math it take to figure out rod ratio stroke and travel of the piston :huh:) just figured that you had already figured this number in you figure's for DCR and that it would be as simple as adding the final figure for DCR (figuring that it was A actual degree that was the final equation was figured.......... "Cam intake duration and Cam lobe separation angle")62, or 72* Exc.

Any one that can help on this, Please post up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flash
89 XJ with 300,000 on the original eng

"I've also never completed a motor, yet. My mouth (fingers) is also writing checks my ass can't cash."

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Muad'Dib
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Re: Calculator...

Post by Muad'Dib » August 25th, 2008, 1:17 pm

Ok, i finally added the info for the cams listed above... does it all look good??

Do we only want those three choices on there?

About the IVC thing flash, im not really sure how to do what your asking with the forumula's i have...
If it feels right, then STROKE it!
You're lucky that hundred shot of CAPS LOCK didn't blow the welds on the forum!!

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