Turbo for a stroker

[ftpiercecracker1]

I am in the middle of building a stroker and have tossed around the idea of adding a turbo before i drop it back in. Would it be adviseable to pull one out of a salvage yard? i figure it would be a lot cheaper than buying one new. If so is there a make/model vehicle with an ideal sized turbo? Not looking for anything crazy, maybe around 8lbs of boost? more? less?

1. yes i know a turbo wont help when going slow
2. yes i know a turbo requires fabrication, wastegate, intercooler, etc
3. yes I do some towing, but even so i would just like the extra 2x help at highway speeds

If I build a low compression stroker, the increased CR from the turbo shouldnt present that big of problem, me thinks.

thanks for all the help you guys have given me.

[Dezertxj88]

Same route I'm taking!
4.2L mini stroker, somewhere around 9.1:1 with a .038 quench..the super tight quench will make up for the high compression!

13lbs on the stock headgasket is max...I would stay below 10psi. I am/will be running a .60trim/.63Ar..just a cheaper ebay turbo, but it'll be perfect for what I'm doing! You can also run a .50trim/.63Ar and it would spool slightly better. I plan to run 91oct, intercooler and meth injection and hopefully 8psi, maybe 10psi.
Turbo and strokers are great, turboing anything is great, so long as its done and precautions are taken!

But decided before you build your stroker, because little tricks helps..like installing the rings at the larger end of the spec and such to help bleed off some heat.

[montelibre]

You can install a cheap used Supercharger, like a M90, and then you will have more torque at low r.p.m.

[Dezertxj88]

You can install a cheap used Supercharger, like a M90, and then you will have more torque at low r.p.m.

Honestly this interested me much more than the turbo setup..but I've also seen only 2 people do homemade kits. 1 white wrangler on youtube..and he used a M90 mounted over the dist. cap. And it screamed like crazy..even at idle you could hear his supercharger whining away..idk why as he never responded! Then a similar setup on a XJ, stock TB and all except this guys didn't scream so badly lol..could bearly hear it. But never saw a build thread or anything on his either!

I've seen the "aftermarket" kit, although I doubt its even made anymore..idk turbo charging can be done for around 750 bucks and that gets you a wideband and fuel controller..look up peppersons 500 budget setup on cherokeeforum. His came out nice!

[ftpiercecracker1]

is there anything specail required to run a turbo, internally? i.e. hell fire rings, performance HG, hardened valve train? and what about pulling a turbo out of a junkyard off of say a f350 or a cummins?
i know those turbos would probably be a little on the big side, but its just a thought.
I dont mind not having boost at lower rpm, thats what the stroker part is for, the turbo (if i can afford to install one) will be for helping out at higher rpm. i.e. highway, towing, or really turning the meats offroad.

Oh, and another thing would it be eaiser to water or air cool a trubo??

[Dezertxj88]

is there anything specail required to run a turbo, internally? i.e. hell fire rings, performance HG, hardened valve train? and what about pulling a turbo out of a junkyard off of say a f350 or a cummins?
i know those turbos would probably be a little on the big side, but its just a thought.
I dont mind not having boost at lower rpm, thats what the stroker part is for, the turbo (if i can afford to install one) will be for helping out at higher rpm. i.e. highway, towing, or really turning the meats offroad.

Oh, and another thing would it be eaiser to water or air cool a trubo??

A ford or cummins turbo would be great. Cummins being a internally gated holset, usually a Hy35, or Hx35. Perfect size for us!
The ford is slightly bigger and externally gated..forget who makes their factory turbos atm.

Remember your stroker is a bigger motor, thus more air, fuel & exhaust. Thus they can spin a bigger turbo faster! No issue with those at all, and honestly its better to go slightly bigger vs slightly smaller! PTB = part throttle boost..I can tune for anything 50% and up on the throttle. So anything under 50% is going to be untuneable for me with a SAFC II, meaning I cant add fuel! In turn the PTB is forcing in more air without more fuel = kaboom! Plus PTB for DD can suck! Killing fuel mileage, super snappy feeling, not always the best, but depends on what you want..
Think of your normal operation range..IE highway speed RPM. Mines around 2350RPM. So I sized my turbo to start spooling around 2200rpm. As in it starts building boost around 2200-2300..leads to very minimal PTB, you get usually better mileage, because instead of using more throttle, the turbo will just spool a little, and your moving like you need to! And because it spools right where your running, you just put your foot in it and off you go:)

Special considerations...I've heard alot of people say metric rings vs standard size because they are thinner, giving less heat transfer...but again your not shooting for 1000whp lol. I'd focus on getting a good strong piston that'll take some detenation, forged is best, but a good cast/hyper will work as well! The KB2229 I'll be running can be dished from 11cc to around 30cc..meaning its got some meat to it, thus making it slightly stronger and more resistant to detonation because its got alot of material to take the force..If you have a piston thats 11cc dish, and can only be dished to 16cc, theres not much meat! But a piston thats 11cc that can be dished to 30cc has more material to work with, the ticker piston will take more of a beating!
Obviously theres more to it, but think about stuff like that when choosing parts!
I plan to stay around 6-8psi, no need for more..Most turbo stock 4.0s with 6-8psi are pushing 200-210whp and around 250whp. A stroked turbo 4.0 should be close to 275whp and 325whp. May be getting to the limit of the stock rods... My 4.2L, stock cam, 2.00/1.55 valves, ported Renix head, around 9:1 compression and 6-8psi, intercooler and 30lbs injectors, tuned on 91oct. May need even bigger injectors lol. I'm honestly expecting around 240hp and around 290ftlbs. I may make more, may make less...it remains to be seen.

You don't water & air cool a turbo..you oil and water cool a turbo..most oil cooled turbos are perfectly fine though! Your talking about a water-air intercooler that cools the intake charge. YES you need to cool the intake charge somehow! Our jeeps have a issue with high intake charges..so cool it anyway you can. A air-air would be the best! Water-air will get heat soaked no matter what on a daily driver..not a bad setup, but air-air is easier and effective! High intake charge temps leads to loss of power, less mileage and increased chance of detonation.
I'm going to be running meth injection while I'm N/a and turboed. It cools the intake charge considerably, and fights of detonation. Their WILL be gains with meth injection and our jeeps, even without turbos..it'll fight off detonation and cool the intake charge! It also steam cleans your motor, so no carbon build up ever!


Special rings may help slightly, such as the hell fire rings. I've heard of them, but I'll be using normal moly rings. Our headgasket will hold around 12-13psi. 505 offers a metal headgasket thats been tested to 20psi I guess. Its .041 compressed. I would get the 505 metal intake/exhaust gasket no matter what though..I've burned up a few of the normal kind on my stock jeep...so the metal one there should lead to better durability.
IF you haven't bought your valves or anything yet, then I'd look into some bigger valves IF your truely to turbo your motor! In N/a motors, you want the most air through the smallest hole..IE get more flow with stock sized valves! With forced induction bigger valves help, because your now forcing air in..so you can move more, thus the bigger valves being more effective.
I chose stock LS1 stuff. Kept stock 87-95 cam for cost effectiveness..2.00/1.55 valves. Polish the combustion chambers..helps N/a & FI. Also polished exhaust ports glass smooth, it'll keep exhaust velocity up on both N/a & FI motors.

I've done/am doing all the above on my motor. It will run N/a for 6months before the turbo touches it, all the stuff I've done should help out in theory.
.038 super tight quench
9.1:1 compression
A-A intercooler
2.00/1.55 valves
Polished exhaust ported & combustion chambers

[Dezertxj88]

I guess decide now if you truely want a turbo or not! Because things can be done to help you once your turbo..but they may not be the best for a n/a motor!
Like bigger valves, will flow less at lower lifts because the velocity isn't high enough, thus the saying for N/a motors, most air through smallest hole. The bigger valves will hurt lower lift flow numbers, but gain some flow at higher lifts.
In a forced induction motor, they will help because your basically forcing feeding the motor, and the bigger valves will let that extra air in easier!
You can install your rings at the bigger end of the tolerences..as in fitting them in on the wider side to bleed off some cylinder pressure, some heat ect. Try to get the absolute tightest quench possible...it'll fight of detonation, get a more complete burn, and try to stay around stock compression..8.8:1. I'm at 9:1 but with a .038 quench it won't matter. I'm actually going to try and tighten my quench up slightly more as well..I want to try and get .025
The ls1 valves are helping me here. They have tuliped undersides..so when they are installed, they will add a few cc's to the head, thus dropping the compression ratio slightly, letting me tighten the quench up without raising the compression ratio. I got ls1 intake and Ls6 exhaust valves.
The ls6 exhaust valves are lighter & sodium filled so they are better with heat transfer and such. Good idea for turbo app's. They are slightly longer than ls1 valves, so the exhaust spring seats will have to be ground slightly more to get the correct install height though!

Honestly a 4.6L stroker turbo would be freaking sweet! But if you haven't bought a crank and such yet, I'd look at a built 4.0 turbo, or a mild 4.2L turbo like what I'm doing!
I went with a 4.2L because my crank needed to be turned..would of cost me over 200 bucks..I payed $158 shipped for my 232 crank and bearings! My block was already punched out .060 as well..the 232, 3.500" stroker + .060 over gives a 4.2L. A 232, 3.500" + the stock bore is a 4.05L..The .060 overbore unshroud valves, gets a more complete burn & helps intake/exhaust flow! A built turbo 4.0 can deffinetly make more than a 4.7L stroker, the stroker will have more down low though! And probably cost less for a built 4.0 turbo pending whats all done!
My 4.2L should be on par with a 4.7L high dollar stroker honestly..and cost less:) Around 1500 for the motor, and 900 for the turbo setup. Maybe another 300 for the meth injection kit.so around 2500 all said and done.

[ftpiercecracker1]

thanks for the detailed posts, those are the best. As of right now the only things i have for my motor are. . .

88 block still waiting to be machined
rare 12 counter weight crank
and 707 rods

I got the crank and rods for approx $30 bucks.

and the more i think about it the more i want to do a turbo, i am just scared to death that i will be living under a bridge by the time i am done paying for all of this

1200 for ALL machine work
say 800 for all parts, if i dont get KB pistons
and do you think i can get everything i need to do a turbo for 300?

that would be $2300

as of right now i will definately be able to get the stroker part done by end of summer. And once the fall semester starts, (if i can get my grades back up) i will have between 2500 and 3500 bucks over from scholarships. So if everything goes according to plan i might just pull this out of my ass. God this is going to be awesome.

ok so i will start looking for a turbo out of a cummins and see what i can find, call my brother (hes god when it comes to fabrication), locate an intercooler, and a bunch of other stuff.

Oh oh, before i forget. i have seen several different turbos setup to only collect exhaust from one exhaust port and some collecting from all six? whats the deal?

thanks again you guys are the best.

[604rail_king]

sadly the used pricing for holsets turbo's off the dodge diesel trucks have gone sky high in the past couple years. an hx35 would be an idea sized turbo in my opinion and should be like $300 all day long, but recent popularity has driven them to double that. lots of import guys are snatching them up for many reason... mostly due to cost. new holsets are like $1000-1200 depending on size and options.

if you can come across a working holset at your local wreckers - great! however you may be able to find a nice used t3/t4 with ease for $300-400. ebay or try some of the popular import sites (dsmtuners.com comes to mind) where turbo setups are being flogged all the time.

the piece i can see being the most expensive in this turbo build is the manifold. the only decent one ive seen is $800. ouch!
http://www.boostwerks.com/collections/j ... o-manifold

a small ebay intercooler kit will work good. comes with universal piping, couplers, and clamps for about $150-200 shipped. even a top mount off an sti with bov would work well.

a stock/uncrushed 1g (91-94) bov will work great and can be had with flanged pipe for $30. things are proven bullet proof and will be fine for any simple setup.

water/meth kits are nice but not always needed unless you are having intake temp issues or wanting to push more out of your setup.

at the end of the day, tuning will be your most important factor. id suggest an AEM FIC and find a local dyno tuner to ensure longevity.

[Dezertxj88]

sadly the used pricing for holsets turbo's off the dodge diesel trucks have gone sky high in the past couple years. an hx35 would be an idea sized turbo in my opinion and should be like $300 all day long, but recent popularity has driven them to double that. lots of import guys are snatching them up for many reason... mostly due to cost. new holsets are like $1000-1200 depending on size and options.

if you can come across a working holset at your local wreckers - great! however you may be able to find a nice used t3/t4 with ease for $300-400. ebay or try some of the popular import sites (dsmtuners.com comes to mind) where turbo setups are being flogged all the time.

the piece i can see being the most expensive in this turbo build is the manifold. the only decent one ive seen is $800. ouch!
http://www.boostwerks.com/collections/j ... o-manifold

a small ebay intercooler kit will work good. comes with universal piping, couplers, and clamps for about $150-200 shipped. even a top mount off an sti with bov would work well.

a stock/uncrushed 1g (91-94) bov will work great and can be had with flanged pipe for $30. things are proven bullet proof and will be fine for any simple setup.

water/meth kits are nice but not always needed unless you are having intake temp issues or wanting to push more out of your setup.

at the end of the day, tuning will be your most important factor. id suggest an AEM FIC and find a local dyno tuner to ensure longevity.

Safc II is what I'm using, can get them used for around 180 shipped all day. Aem fic/greddy EMU are nice, but alot of unused features for a lot of extra cost!
The Safc II is basically a glorified map adjuster, which is what alot of people use to tune their strokers.

You NEED around 1000 saved for a turbo setup. If you spend 400 cool, now you have some "oh sh*t" money. Don't try to budget it out, save then you have more than enough and you end up buying better parts:)
You can get a complete turbo kit online..ebay of course, with BOV, wastegate, intercooler, piping ect. for around 600 shipped. Peppersons running the we out of his ebay setup and loves it! I'd honestly take that route!
For a exhaust manifold, you find a old renix log style, mod it to fit your turbo! He modified his stock header to mount the turbo! No need for some aftermarket one! All 6 cylinders feed the turbo no matter what..no way around that, I think you may be refering to how some people set theres up though..but every turbo setup, all cylinders feed the turbo.
Read his build there here--> http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f46/new-me ... dd-100318/

Turbo can be done very very cheap, but you need to know what your doing, you need to take it easy on it until its got a safe tune! premium gas always, and around 11.5-12.2:1 AirfuelRatio. The higher the number the leaner you are..try to stay a tad rich to be on the safe side!

A Safc II or a HKS AFC cost around 200.
A good wideband, AEM uego is what I use, is around 200.
Then just the cost of the turbo kit..so my $1000 budget is about right..

I have a wastegate, BOV tons of intercooler piping already. I have my SAFC II, have my wideband, this was all from other projects...so I got lucky lol..but expect at least a 1000 dollars to do it right.

[ftpiercecracker1]

thanks for all the insight.

by the way what is a bov?
and the two electrical componets will probably be part of the stroker build, so i will need them anyway, I can probably fab an exhaust without too much trouble, and i know a LOT of people, so i can probably find a turbo for a good price.

i am going to shot for a 2500 dollar stroker/turbo budget build, if i can pull it off it will make for some really good blueprints for other people thinking of the same thing. Well here goes nothin

[604rail_king]

an safc are decent for simple setups but are limited, however will work for a basic jeep turbo. an AEM FIC is my own personal choice if going full standalone is not an option.

ebay wastegates and blow off valves (bov) may work when new, but almost every one ive seen by customers have eventually failed in a short period of time. especially when attempting over 10psi. run it if you want, but personally id use other.

[Dezertxj88]

an safc are decent for simple setups but are limited, however will work for a basic jeep turbo. an AEM FIC is my own personal choice if going full standalone is not an option.

ebay wastegates and blow off valves (bov) may work when new, but almost every one ive seen by customers have eventually failed in a short period of time. especially when attempting over 10psi. run it if you want, but personally id use other.

Well ya of course I'd use another, I will be running a Tial 38mm off an older project honestly. But for the average joe, the ebay one will work fine. Again 10psi is what TurboTom was running on a forged motor & E85 and he still blew that up. I'd say 8psi is about the max unless you do a full turbo build, low compression and all! Not to say 10psi is the limit of ebay wastegates anyway.
The ebay setups have been used in Na-T conversions for many many years. I know alot of Na-T supras running a ebay wastegate, and other than some boost creep at higher pressure, 20psi or so, they are fine. No corrosion, and work fine, other than boost creep at higher PSI's.
Same as the ebay BOV's. I don't see why people insist that they are crap? I must ask do you have personal experience with them? Because I do! Sure theres nicer units, sure theres units that work better...but again we aren't talking high buck, high horsepower cars here. We are talking budget minded jeep folk that won't ever see more than 10psi MAX! Ebay parts will work fine! Of course you can go all out and buy this and that, and it will work the same, just be more expensive!

Should of stated my SAFC II comment better lol...safc II for the renix guys is best! The Fi/c will do nothing more for us, that the SAFCII can't! We have no rev limiter, we can't control timing anyway..its best to just set it and leave it! We can monitor the knock sensor on the SAFC II as well..Fi/ can't do that.
The Aem Fi/C is nice but outdated! Not to say the SAFC isn't either. From my understanding the SAFC is a waste on anything 91+ anyway because you have a learning ECU..as is your tune..won't be much of a tune after a few weeks because the factory ECU will try to fix things on its own!
Use Renix guys don't have that, so the safc II is perfect. I'd say the Fi/c is a mandatory thing in the newer jeeps because it won't let your ECU relearn like the SAFC II will. For me, a 88 Renix, it'll do its job fine!

[ftpiercecracker1]

Awesome, but how much should i expect to shell out for a SAFC II unit?
and would this be all i need for the stroker build as well?
Meaning the only other item i would need would be larger injectors.

No fuel pressure reg, air/fuel gauge, map voltage adjuster.
Would the SAFC do the work of all of these?

[Dezertxj88]

Awesome, but how much should i expect to shell out for a SAFC II unit?
and would this be all i need for the stroker build as well?
Meaning the only other item i would need would be larger injectors.

No fuel pressure reg, air/fuel gauge, map voltage adjuster.
Would the SAFC do the work of all of these?

You already have a fuel pressure regulator..
Let me ask what years your jeep? The SAFC II is a map adjuster..just a much more glorified one! A simple map adjust is the same, the SAFC II is just much more accurate, can add & take fuel away in much more precise increments, and it shows & reads on the screen.
To tune it you'll need a wideband..most tuners will have one that goes in the tail pipe though...a real wideband is much more accurate though!

I sell upgraded/larger injectors, so let me know what you need and I'll get you it