Best oil for our strokers

[gonridnu]

I'm probably going to go with Joe Gibb's for break in oil for teh first 20 minutes of cam break in.. I haven't figured out what to use for the first 1000 miles or so..

Went to a Joe Gibbs seminar and they recommend breaking the engine in then changing the filter only and running it for at least 500 miles.....Then you use their "Hot Rod" oil thereafter.

No need for additives, in fact if you use E.O.S. the zinc level will be way too high and you run the risk of fusing rings to piston.

[SilverXJ]

No need for additives, in fact if you use E.O.S. the zinc level will be way too high and you run the risk of fusing rings to piston.

You just recommended using Joe Gibbs XP6 with has 5846ppm of zinc, yet you didn't mention anything about a risk of using the XP oil and fusing rings.

EOS only has 6820 PPM of zinc. Based on a 6 qt fill of Joe Gibbs BR and one 16 oz bottle of EOS, that would make the total Zinc PPM only 3324 ppm. (13:1 dilution of the EOS = 524 Zinc PPM + 2800 Zinc PPM from BR). Which is far from the 5846 ppm of XP6. Is this the sort of propaganda that you were referring to earlier?

[gonridnu]

I meant there was no need to run E.O.S. with Joe Gibbs racing oil and that the addition of it to high zinc oils can fuse the rings. If you read about their oils you will see they do not recommend eos to be added to any of their formulations. This is because they are blended for a specific purpose. I did not "recommend" XP 6. There was another thread that dealt with full synthetic racing oils with high zinc levels and I simply posted a JG oil there that has very high levels

I did however recommend their break in oil and HR oil for the jeep stroker applications and I stand by that. You apparently have an issue either with me or their product. If it is the former than you go to work for a Nascar team for most of your adult life, come back and talk to me...if it is the latter, well I guess the answer is the same.

Watch my 30 day stroker build under projects....this is not rocket science and I was only trying to be helpful and impart some of my 25+ years of experience in the racing industry.

[SilverXJ]

I did however recommend their break in oil and HR oil for the jeep stroker applications and I stand by that. You apparently have an issue either with me or their product. If it is the former than you go to work for a Nascar team for most of your adult life, come back and talk to me...if it is the latter, well I guess the answer is the same.

The problem is that you went to an infomercial session with Joe Gibbs and suddenly you are pushing it like its crack. Your facts aren't even correct, call other oil's information propaganda, pretend to be the oil know-it-all, etc. Despite the fact that you back pedaled and say you didn't recommend XP6 there is still the fact that you think it won't fuse pistons rings yet some how the BR + EOS will due to the zinc content. While, the true reason that JG recommends not mixing other additives with their oil has to do with additive package clash. I have no problem with JG oils. I've run BR in the past and will again.

I don't care whom you use to work for.

[gonridnu]

All I did was post the some of the contents and did not recommend XP6 any more than you did Amsoil. I am not backpeddling.

I am pushing Gibbs Break oil because it is very good and a majority of the high end engine builders I associate with across the country are using it now. It has essentially solved a lot of problems without the need to become an oil expert. The seminar I went to was not an "infomercial". It was conducted by a Gibbs lubrication engineer for engineers in the high performance manufacturing and engine building community by invite only.

As I am not a lubrication engineer and do not have millions of dollars to throw at R & D I defer to those of you that are experts in their field rather than trying to re-invent the wheel.

As far as my work experience.....well there is experience and there is reading books and magazines. I have built more race engines in a year than most people see in a lifetime. I'm not going to argue with you, a moderator, because the product works, many other people are happy with it, and honestly it does nothing for the people on this board.

So you have used it but you attack someone for recommending it...did it not work? Do you have reasons not to use it? Is it not a good break in oil for flat tappet cams? Is adding EOS to everything under the sun a better option? Seriously what information am I missing here?

[SilverXJ]

I am pushing Gibbs Break oil because it is very good and a majority of the high end engine builders I associate with across the country are using it now. It has essentially solved a lot of problems without the need to become an oil expert.

Without doing your own research or VOAs you are playing into this "propaganda" you speak of from other oil companies. Despite the fact that Joe Gibbs is very good, your whole posts in the past week have come off like nothing more than an infomercial for the oil.

As I am not a lubrication engineer and do not have millions of dollars to throw at R & D I defer to those of you that are experts in their field rather than trying to re-invent the wheel.

There are plenty of VOAs available to the public regarding the ZDDP content about oil.

As far as my work experience.....well there is experience and there is reading books and magazines. I have built more race engines in a year than most people see in a lifetime. I'm not going to argue with you, a moderator, because the product works, many other people are happy with it, and honestly it does nothing for the people on this board.

Once again, I don't care what you did/do. I don't know you from Joe Schmo here. Making a race engine last for 100 laps is a lot different from building an engine to last 100,000+ miles. Don't worry I won't get banned for arguing with me.

So you have used it but you attack someone for recommending it...did it not work?

I used the BR prior and I haven't had a problem from it. However, I used their BR30 and I had the cam bearings fail. I'm not saying it was because of the oil, but aside from replacing the cam, the break in oil was the only other thing that changed. I am not attacking someone for recommending it, but from your posts you don't appear to be able to provide the correct information besides "its great".

Is adding EOS to everything under the sun a better option? [/quote} Depends what you are trying to achieve with the oil. Why does their XP oil series of oil have more zinc than their BR oil?

[gradon]

From the oil threads in the past few years, I've come to the conclusion that Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs, Amsoil, and Mobil 1 are the companies to get oils from that have high zddp(not every oil, but they offer oils that'll do). That being said, you did kinda push JG hard(kinda like some Amsoil reps get) in multiple posts. Anyhow take a breather guys--it's only oil.

[gonridnu]

I'm good Gradon....I am not associated with or a dealer for their oil. After reading post after post after post of people citing lubrication issues or cam failures I was just trying to help because a great many of these can be attributed improper lubrication.

ZDDP is just one piece of the puzzle as is shear and detergent and the binding package ad nuaseum. I spent four hours in a seminar put on by a lubrication engineer and learned more than I had in reading hundreds of tech articles over the years.

Ur right silver you don't know me so let me introduce myself...my name is Loren and I attended UNLV as an engineering major with a minor in metalurgy. I grew up in the family owned hot forging business which had in house heat treating that I ran after college. I soon found myself bored and pursued my true interest which was race engines. After working as a tech advisor for on of the biggest mail order houses in the country I owned a race engine shop and later went to work for several companies that supply Nascar where it was my job to communicate with their engine department engineers regarding product developmment. To this day I have open job offers to work for Brodix, Hendrick, Evernham, and Ernie Elliot as well. I have had a long career in it and at age 46 went to school to become a horse shoer or farrier as it is appropriately called...crazy I know but I've done my time and now I'm having fun with the kids and their rodeo careers rather than traveling around the country doing tech seminars. That's me in a nutshell....

So U can put a face to the name I'll post some pics of me once I get this computer issue worked out....

[gonridnu]

Hay...look at me actually working on something:) 540" B1 headed Mopar I built last year for my street car. Made 711 horsepower and 666 ft. lbs of torque at 6400 RPM on pump gas with a flat tappet cam. Just imagine what a guy could do with some compression, a roller cam, and some RPM! I almost forgot to mention the 300 shot of N2o.

This engine utilizes through the pushrod “Chevy style” oiling by using bronze lifter bushings with a .030” hole intersecting the lifter galley, chevy style ball/ball pushrods, T&D paired roller rockers, as well as a .010” hole has been EDM’d in the face of the lifters for added camshaft lubrication. While this can be problematic on stock blocks the Mega Block is designed with much larger lifter oil galleys and is perfect for this design. Upon inspection there was just the right amount of oil in the rocker covers. This is a far superior method of lubricating the upper end in a race engine when compared to the stock single shaft arrangement B-1, aftermarket, and stock heads employ. The end result is increased oil supply to the main journals and a far superior, more dependable, more stable valvetrain design.

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[dwg86]

For whats it worth, I used valvoline VR1 10w30 with a can of gm eos for break in. I have been running VR1 10w30 since. I just did my 6000 mile oil chance. No problems yet...knock on wood.

[cavaliers1323]

The best thing you can do is use a fully formulated motor oil (made for HP motors) and don't tinker with it....And only use break-in oils/adds for just that, break-in.

Oh and SM oil has two, not one two, sequence tests for flat tappet cams. I have extensive notes of both, if you'd like me to post them. However both motors wouldn't be considered high performance. My point is I wouldn't buy any ole oil cuz it meets a spec. HP motors are a diffrent beast, and have different requirements.

[gradon]

so what's the street car that beast got shoe-horned in?

[cavaliers1323]

Hay...look at me actually working on something:) 540" B1 headed Mopar I built last year for my street car. Made 711 horsepower and 666 ft. lbs of torque at 6400 RPM on pump gas with a flat tappet cam. Just imagine what a guy could do with some compression, a roller cam, and some RPM! I almost forgot to mention the 300 shot of N2o.

This engine utilizes through the pushrod “Chevy style” oiling by using bronze lifter bushings with a .030” hole intersecting the lifter galley, chevy style ball/ball pushrods, T&D paired roller rockers, as well as a .010” hole has been EDM’d in the face of the lifters for added camshaft lubrication. While this can be problematic on stock blocks the Mega Block is designed with much larger lifter oil galleys and is perfect for this design. Upon inspection there was just the right amount of oil in the rocker covers. This is a far superior method of lubricating the upper end in a race engine when compared to the stock single shaft arrangement B-1, aftermarket, and stock heads employ. The end result is increased oil supply to the main journals and a far superior, more dependable, more stable valvetrain design.

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No offense but just because you can build motors doesn't mean your a tribologist. I think your statements themselves prove this. A lot of mis information....