New 4.6L stroker build

[SilverXJ]

Well, being that the cam is being forced down by the springs it makes sense that if the oil pressure was too low that it would burn he bearings in that area. I just don't understand how there could be not enough oil pressure to support the cam, but still have oil pressure at all.

BTW, those pictures were taken from the bottom of the block, so up is down.

[jffffl]

We have over 2500 miles on our 4.6 stroker, it has the lifter bores grooved, just as Silvers are.
Rented his tools to groove them, the oil pressure at warm idle runs at 25 psi, 40 psi above
1500rpm. This is with stock Melling oil pump, engine runs well.

Russ

[brendanbreen]

if you think your not getting enough oil pressure to cause cam failure hows your valve train looking?

[the_wrench116]

shot in the dark. did the machinist line bore the mains and cam journals parallel. if they are out some maybe that could be the problem???

[SilverXJ]

Another idea I thought about was the lifters. I used the Lunati lifters which were the smaller variant (.9037" vs. .9044"). I thought maybe the extra clearance allowed more oil to leak down. However that means the difference from a stock size lifter .000994 in sq (area of stock lifter minus area of lunati lifter). Even then for 12 there would only be a .0119 in sq difference. Doesn't seem like a lot though until you realize that is the area of a hole of .12323" in diameter. Nearly 1/8" additional clearance/leak.

On the other hand the lifter bore grooving produced the total area of a hole of roughly .0414" in diameter. I say roughly because it was a bit harder to find the area of that due to the fact that the blade was semi circular and .012" deep cut.

So the smaller lifters could explain the lack of oil. Which could also explain why the lifters weren't pumping up and causing the idling and loss of performance. And the lack of oil could explain why the cam bearings went out... however... Why didn't the main and rod bearings fail as well???

Also, since I was using the larger lifters on the comp cam it would explain why the cam bearings didn't fail them... but it still doesn't explain why the comp cam failed (probably from rotating the engine with out oil), nor the noisy valve train on the comp cam.

[lafrad]

I would expect smaller lifters to cause more problems due to going sideways in the bores, causing more friction.... this could side-load the cam against the bearings.. burn the bearings out, spin lifters around... freeze them in their tracks.....

you loose more oil on main and rod journal clearance....

[SilverXJ]

Maybe they were side loading the cam... especially since the cam bearings are the ones that failed. Also, that clearance from the lifters is 100% extra clearance, not just the stock clearance plus the extra.

And the cam is out of round as well. One journal is 11 thou out and the other is 8.

[Biggrnjeep97]

Wow, i just read this build front to back. Id be livid if i were in your shoes. Im not sure i can add any help to the oiling issue but i do have .02 id like to toss into the mix. Im at work so i cant measure it, but that aluminium shield that goes between your bell housing and block is, IIRC, of substantial tickness (~.100") and is for all instesive purposes, a spacer. Maybe its not being there is pushing the flexplate and crank forward and putting excessive stress on your thrust bearing. Just my .02. Also, if you need a newish block, 12wt crank or 4.0 rods; i have extras taking up space in my garage. Good luck.
-Will

[SilverXJ]

No, that aluminum plate is there... if it was only that simple... as for that issue I have come up with perhaps a clogged transmission line causing excessive pressure... but I have engine work to do as well.. ugh..

[SilverXJ]

My roller rockers needed to be rebuilt... and Isky isn't returning my phone calls or doing anything about the run out in the cam... great

[Biggrnjeep97]

No, that aluminum plate is there... if it was only that simple... as for that issue I have come up with perhaps a clogged transmission line causing excessive pressure... but I have engine work to do as well.. ugh..

My bad. I thought i read that youd left that out.

[RAPTORFAN85]

My roller rockers needed to be rebuilt... and Isky isn't returning my phone calls or doing anything about the run out in the cam... great

If you don't mind me asking, what happened to the rockers?

[SilverXJ]

I sent the rockers back to Harland Sharp for inspection and they said they needed to be rebuilt. Keep in mind they were also used on the Titan, the first cam fail on this engine and then now with the bearing fail. They did feel a little lose to me, but I have no specs on them to compare it too. They were probably worn from all the crap being run through them.

I contacted Isky around sept 24th about the run out in the cam that my machinist found. I spoke with Ron @ Isky about it and he said he wanted to talk to my machinist. He hasn't called him yet to discuss anything. I have made numerous calls to Isky since then and Ron keeps saying he will call and return my phone call. He never called teh machinist and never returns ANY of my phone calls. I doubt that the run out in the cam caused the bearing failure, but there shouldn't be run out and Ron isn't even addressing the issue. Pretty much just ignoring it. I'm not really sure what to do on that front.. I'm thinking of calling my credit card company and seeing if I can dispute the charge.

[lafrad]

tell isky you are going to dispute the charge first... might get some things moving better.

[SilverXJ]

I called Isky about them not doing anything. At first he started off with 'Well, I don't know why you haven't sent the cam shaft back and I don't know why I need to call your machinist'. That just set me off. First I didn't tell him to call the machinist, it was something he wanted to do. Second, he never told me to send the cam back. I set him straight on that and told him that he either needs to re grind me a cam or refund me. The time that it was running I liked the cam. I may have liked it more if the cam bearings haven't failed throwing the timing off (due to the bearings being worn the timing chain showed about 1/2" of play or more). After that he admited it was his fault that he hadn't contacted the machine shop and he was sorry it has taken so long for any action. He said he would send a call tag for the cam and that he would call my machine shop. Well, he did call teh machine shop and talk to the machinist, whom said he was sending another cam to me. I haven't heard from him since and teh old cam is sitting at work waiting for that call tag. I'll wait another week or so for the new cam.

Harland Sharp returned the rockers to me. They said that there was dirt in the trunnions, but they had no real way of cleaning them aside from taking them apart. Since they had them apart it wouldn't be worth it to not replace the bearings. He said that since he didn't call me ahead an authorize the work that he would only charge me $60 of the $120 it usually costs. In the note I included I told them to just repair them if necessary, not worrying about the price. He didn't even give me the chance to complain about the $120 (I wouldn't have) and just charged me $60. Harland Sharp definitely gets a big for service.

Other than that the new block arrived along with the transmission hose, transmission filter and transmission cooler so I can redo the hoses on that in case they were kinked of damaged which could have contributed to my thrust bearing failure.

Also, since one of the power seat motors died last time it was sitting I'm looking in to replacing the power seat trck with a manual to lower the seat height. I'm 6'2" and my head is about 1" away from the roof and the manual seat rails are quite a bit lower. I just hope they have enough angle for me on the seat bottom. Along with that I need to replace the driver's side window regulator. Heck... I let it sit and it starts to break more. I guess the saying 'If you don't use you lose it' applies here.