95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

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I6FAN
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by I6FAN »

beiwulf wrote:Image

I'm a bit of a visual guy. I like pictures and story line. Hope you all enjoy the pictures and diagram.

Very nice layout; enables great/easy visualization! I thought about something less than .100" overbore, say .080-.090" would be what I would consider for street. I thought anything over .100" would be pushing it. That's without hardblok of coarse. What's your machinists opinion on the overbore...just curious about this. Again nice pictorial representation!
beiwulf
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by beiwulf »

A few things the machinist I used initially stated about what my intentions are. Don't go below a .125 sidewall, rinse out thoroughly after acid dip (which he referred me to the acid dipper), and once filler is in let set for about a month.

Most of the research on the block fill has been done online. Between Speedtalk, 460ford.com (http://www.460ford.com/forum/archive/in ... 21639.html), power stroke army (http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/archi ... -6859.html), google searches leading to other forums. I read up on moroso grout, embeco, hard blok, and other epoxy fillers.

Seems Embeco has a good reputation and cheaper then Hard Blok but similar principles in there claims to one another. The reason I bring this up is because the machinist also stated to get the fill done before boring/honing. Due to the fact of expansion and any distortion that can occur during curing of fill. Would hate to put the fill in after the bore and hone and find out it moved. I have read more then one person using hard blok after machining block, boring, honing and not having an issue. Better error on safe side though.

planning on about .125 total - and about .0625 off each side wall from the displayed numbers (roundness)
95 Silver ZJ 4x4 4.0L (soon to be stroked/boosted) currently DD
1999 Victory V92 (first year production) street bike/cruiser

95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker build threadhttp://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... f=8&t=4342
I6FAN
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 172
Joined: March 28th, 2010, 9:31 am
Stroker Displacement: 4.2
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Vehicle Model: wrangler

Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by I6FAN »

beiwulf wrote:Don't go below a .125 sidewall,

Was that with or without fill? Did he recommend the fill because of the remaining thickness, or because you intend to turbocharge?
beiwulf wrote:
Seems Embeco has a good reputation and cheaper then Hard Blok but similar principles in there claims to one another.

Yea, I was just using the term "hardblok" collectively for any fill. sounds like your definitely doing your homework. :)
beiwulf
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by beiwulf »

He mentioned in general don't go below that amount. And was my intention to do the fill and said something to him about it. Reading on some of the other forums these guys are doing HP builds. I'm looking to elicit the torque from this block. I do not have any current intentions of running this passed the 5250/5300 rpm market installed from factory on this build.

As for the fill it's a two fold deal. Yes because of turbo as well as the fact of the overbore for the added reinforcement.

This first shot is into the water jacket from the front of the block where the water pump goes. It's directed towards the load side or thrust side of the block for the piston.

Image

This second shot is the back side of block facing the load/thrust side as well (#6 cylinder).

Image

This shot is taken also from the back side of the block inside the water jacket and looking passed #6 cylinder. Not sure if it's all like this - however it's not a straight shot vertically or horizontally around anyone of these cylinders. Turbulence anywhere you look to get the coolant through this part of the block.

Image

Food for thought while I plan on the block fill.

Meanwhile found 3 cryo places out in my neck of the woods yesterday.

CryoHeat in El Cajon, CA _________________________________________$450 for 6 cylinder block only
CryoScience Orange County/South LA price given (advertises pick up and delivery I believe)………….$275 for 6 cylinder block only
Thermal-vac in the city of Orange__________________________________$600 flat rate for what they can fit in there fridge and -320 degrees with liquid nitrogen anywhere from a 2-3 day process… spoke with I believe his name is John friendly and willing to educate the people like myself ignorant to this metallurgy process. After bringing it back from the deep freeze slowly in and out. Then the block is heat treated to 350 to help set the cryo in place.

So the dilemma I have currently. Stocking the rest of the internals and doing it all in one shot…(more or less of what I am leaning towards)…Or just doing the block with one of these shops and doing the other parts later. Cost effective would seem the flat rate. And i am not in a huge hurry to push this build along. Time and money…I consider myself patient in this area.
95 Silver ZJ 4x4 4.0L (soon to be stroked/boosted) currently DD
1999 Victory V92 (first year production) street bike/cruiser

95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker build threadhttp://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... f=8&t=4342
beiwulf
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by beiwulf »

Since doing more research and trying to fathom some of the technical experience others have applied to engine dynamics. I am probably going to up the compression to 8:1-8.5:1 range. Thinking that getting those pistons up as close to deck height as possible and having he CC taken out of the piston and cylinder head. Seems like a better idea to maintain a better quench for a more efficient build even with boost being applied.

I am not a huge believer in what is printed in magazines just due to the fact magazines print shit to sell more magazines. 1 Month says one thing and then the next having an article counter the thoughts on the prior month. However, I did recently see a supra build having 9:1 compression putting out over 1,000hp on there 2gz engine. Now I know we don't have anything like there cylinder head setup for breathability. Doesn't mean even half of that for a DD with what we have to work with isn't a modest goal to hit.

I got my Mike Jones cam the other week (looks nice). Working on polishing engine block, cylinder head, other cylinder being acid dipped (both times forgot to get my main caps dipped - so i just boiled them in some purple simple green and polished with a brass wire brush and wd40). Will post some pictures in the next few days.

Getting ready for a hiking trip to Havasu Falls in Grand Canyon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havasu_Falls
Not taking the jeep for this trip no 4x4'ing.

Any thoughts on build would love any of the turbo jeeper's here to chime in and share.

thanks, Brian
95 Silver ZJ 4x4 4.0L (soon to be stroked/boosted) currently DD
1999 Victory V92 (first year production) street bike/cruiser

95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker build threadhttp://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... f=8&t=4342
jeepxj3
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by jeepxj3 »

Is this going to be a DD?

What spec cam did you get from Jones?
beiwulf
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by beiwulf »

Yes a daily driver it is and probably will remain - for now.

112 degreed
40 IVC

Polished with a brash wire brush and pneumatic w/ wd40 to get some of the rust off. Just wanted to preserve them till I get crank and cam journals checked and true from machinist.

Image

Image

Looks like some small pitting and divots.
Image

A picture of what's to come.
Image

Will picked up the block next week from cryo.
95 Silver ZJ 4x4 4.0L (soon to be stroked/boosted) currently DD
1999 Victory V92 (first year production) street bike/cruiser

95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker build threadhttp://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... f=8&t=4342
beiwulf
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Location: So.Cal

Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by beiwulf »

I6FAN wrote:
beiwulf wrote:Don't go below a .125 sidewall,
Was that with or without fill? Did he recommend the fill because of the remaining thickness, or because you intend to turbocharge?
Speaking with another machinist .150 on thrust side and .080 on side wall. When he asked if i was running boost my reply "20-30psi". He was like oh that's it, should be plenty.
95 Silver ZJ 4x4 4.0L (soon to be stroked/boosted) currently DD
1999 Victory V92 (first year production) street bike/cruiser

95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker build threadhttp://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... f=8&t=4342
beiwulf
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Location: So.Cal

Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by beiwulf »

Update on connecting rods:

still on the hunt for the best deal, reliable part, with the correct specifications.

I did find this in my hunt might find useful.

The eclipse, galant, eagle engine 4G63 & 4G63T blocks used in the 90s and some Evo's till early 2000s. I can't speak of other connecting rods but i spoke with a tech from Manley Performance regarding part number 14426 connecting rod. He said that the journal width of these can be safely machined down to fit on our crankshafts to the journal width 1.070-1.076.

Part no. 14426
C-to-C____BE Bore____BE Width____Pin Diameter_____Pin Bore____Gram Weight
6.142"_____1.890"_____ 1.115"_____866" (22mm)_____.8671" ______ 700
Why does this help - refresher on those just chiming in - this is an offset grind on crank to a smaller journal diameter.

I'm still looking for something a bit longer. (no she didn't say that) :smack:

:doh:
95 Silver ZJ 4x4 4.0L (soon to be stroked/boosted) currently DD
1999 Victory V92 (first year production) street bike/cruiser

95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker build threadhttp://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... f=8&t=4342
Defcon92
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by Defcon92 »

What are you looking at for static & dynamic?

I'm at 9.05 static and 7.9 dynamic. .033 quench. Mopar 229 cam & 1,7 RR's. I am thinking about adding in a turbo on a 5psi spring. Its a 4.2l mini stroker. Probably get 220-230whp out of it. I'd like to get 300ftlbs out of it.
beiwulf
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by beiwulf »

SCR 8-8.5:1
DCR 7.5-8-ish

20-30lbs boost goal

decided regular size crankjournals - 4.2L/252 just cleaning up journal. Then nitriding and cryo.

still thinking custom conrods. Stock specs just longer C to C - 6.225/6.250"
.9275 Pin
etc....

Compression Height 1.250 Range
It's been a few months. I would need to go back and check research info again.

I did quite a bit of polishing on cylinder head ports and bowl. Dropped it off the shop w/ EV8 1.62" Ex. 2.02"Int. SS TBC on faces and bronze guides. Still need to purchase SS RR (crowers).
Last edited by beiwulf on July 9th, 2014, 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
95 Silver ZJ 4x4 4.0L (soon to be stroked/boosted) currently DD
1999 Victory V92 (first year production) street bike/cruiser

95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker build threadhttp://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... f=8&t=4342
beiwulf
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Posts: 204
Joined: September 18th, 2013, 11:18 am
Stroker Displacement: 4.7Turbo soonish
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Vehicle Model: Laredo
Location: So.Cal

Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by beiwulf »

6.250" C - to - C con rod
1.250" Compression Height/Pin
not sure on ring lands and width and other such details yet. no less then 1/16 , 1/16, 3/16 minimum.

6.250 / 3.895 = 1.605 ratio = short rod

I am still considering 3.5 stroke with a longer rod to get a higher ratio. Seems there might be some benefits with this style engine atm to stick with a shorter rod though.

Found some good articles on the net and wanted to share them on my build thread.

http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm
http://victorylibrary.com/tech/crod-c.htm

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19285
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=215813

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0 ... ederated=1

Well at least I found some use from them.
95 Silver ZJ 4x4 4.0L (soon to be stroked/boosted) currently DD
1999 Victory V92 (first year production) street bike/cruiser

95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker build threadhttp://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... f=8&t=4342
jeepxj3
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by jeepxj3 »

'6.250" C - to - C con rod'

What rod is this?
beiwulf
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by beiwulf »

I'm in current design stages with this. There is no company currently that provides an off the shelf item to this specification for our inline 6 amc block/crank. I plan on installing it and running it for test before doing anything else with it. As it stands right now. As money permits and time for my build I will keep posting.
95 Silver ZJ 4x4 4.0L (soon to be stroked/boosted) currently DD
1999 Victory V92 (first year production) street bike/cruiser

95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker build threadhttp://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewt ... f=8&t=4342
Defcon92
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Re: 95 ZJ Turbo Boosted Stroker

Post by Defcon92 »

What's your plans for tuning? I really wouldn't mind 5psi or so on a wastegate spring for my stroker. My compression isn't too high, similar to what's yours will be by the sounds of it.

Christuned will be tuning my ecu. Idk if he'll be able to tune for boost though, just by reprogramming/reflashing the ecu?
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