4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

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Lil Dutchman
Where's the "any" key?
Where's the "any" key?
Posts: 22
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 9:34 am
Stroker Displacement: Low Buck 4.6
Vehicle Year: 1998
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Location: Warrenton, VA

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by Lil Dutchman »

Had to take a little break while my wife and I finished school and work projects, now we're back on the horse. We ran into an issues right at the start, I was going to install the main bearings when I noticed that the alignment tabs weren't in the correct place. The new bearings had an offset tab, I needed the centered tab style. It took me a while to realize that these are the older style bearings. I tried returning them with not success, so I ended up having to purchase a set.
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While we waited for the new bearings to arrive, we decided to install the piston rings. (Checking ring gap)
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Finally the bearings arrive, and we get to work. Now I need to get my hands on a dial gauge to check end play and then we can keep on rocking.
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Lil Dutchman
Where's the "any" key?
Where's the "any" key?
Posts: 22
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 9:34 am
Stroker Displacement: Low Buck 4.6
Vehicle Year: 1998
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Location: Warrenton, VA

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by Lil Dutchman »

I wasn't able to get my hands on a dial gauge, so I did the best I could with a feeler gauge, everything checks out great. I lubed up the cam (Lunati 63500) and noticed an extra lobe that I didn't see on the stock cam. I got a little worried but then realized it didn't interfere with anything and I assumed it was a counter weight for balancing. Please let me know if I'm wrong. It looks like a lobe that wasn't ground. All twelve lobes are accounted for and in the correct place, this is just in addition to.
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Next I found the proper timing alignment and installed the timing assembly. I went with a Rollmaster being that it provided additional degree +/-, outside the standard -4/+4. I originally thought that since the cam card stated 4* advanced, that I needed to have that reflected in my timing... (this is my first time). But after a quick conversation with the guys at Lunati, I learned that it was already ground into the cam and that I should install the timing as normal, 0. Hopefully I won't need the additional key locations (bad pic).
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The timing cover and balancing wheel were installed (thank you local/chain parts store for your loan-a-tool program)
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And heres my wife tightening down the head for the first time... I say first time because I was so excited to get this point that I forgot a key element, the lifters. :doh: So after a couple beers, she and I tore it back off. The lifters were lubed and dropped into place and progress stopped again. Staring down at them, I was expecting to see more of a difference in height. After seeing that they were all down as far as they could go, we buttoned it back up.Image
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SilverXJ
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Posts: 5789
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 7:14 am
Stroker Displacement: 4.6L
Vehicle Year: 2000
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Cherokee
Location: Radford, Va

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by SilverXJ »

That grey lube wasn't suppose to go on the cam journals. Regular engine assembly lube should go there.The grey is moly lube and slightly abrasive as well as being too thick for bearing surfaces. The moly lube should also not be used on the sides of the lifter because, again thickness, it could keep a lifter from rotating. All the other be4aring surfaces shouls get standard engine assembly lube. I don't know if its worth tearing it back down or not. Check google: https://www.google.com/search?q=cam+lub ... =firefox-a and make your own decision.

Forgot to mention that extra "lobe" you see is for a mechanical fuel pump pushrod to ride on.
Lil Dutchman
Where's the "any" key?
Where's the "any" key?
Posts: 22
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 9:34 am
Stroker Displacement: Low Buck 4.6
Vehicle Year: 1998
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Location: Warrenton, VA

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by Lil Dutchman »

So this was my entire weekend... :frustrated: :doh: :brickwall: :doh: thank you Silver for the link, I read plenty of forums as a result to your post and it looks like a 50/50 opinion on this one. I emailed Lunati for their opinion and then called them. The Tech that I spoke with said that I shouldn't put it on the cam journals. Then I received an email from the Tech support stating that not only can I lube the journals with the moly lube, but this individual prefers it. I replied, by informing him of the phone conversation I had with someone only minutes earlier and their opinion. He followed up by saying to run with what I have. Furthermore, I came across this site, http://www.4x4review.com/Features/Tech/ ... fault.aspx, which shows a build with Lunati parts and they lubed everything. I'm going back and forth on the matter, but I think I'm going to leave it unless someone tells me otherwise. Thank you for the heads up.
Lil Dutchman
Where's the "any" key?
Where's the "any" key?
Posts: 22
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 9:34 am
Stroker Displacement: Low Buck 4.6
Vehicle Year: 1998
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Location: Warrenton, VA

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by Lil Dutchman »

I picked up a generic, no name 3-2-1 header off ebay and had it ceramic coated. It didn't look too bad, the tubes were welded on the inside to the mounting plate, but not on the outside. I completed the welds to help reduce fatigue. It originally fit great, but when I started to install the intake header, I noticed that the last intake runner was coming in contact with the last exhaust tube. It took a little beating with a hammer to get things to fit, unfortunately it happened after I had it ceramic coated. Luckily I had some exhaust paint that matched the ceramic color.
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Things are looking pretty good, but I realized that a couple items from the donor motor aren't going to work: alternator is seized, water pump feels like its binding and the power steering pump needs new o-rings.
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I picked up a hoist from Craigslist for $80, and I started prepping the motor to be removed. SilverXJ posted steps in removing an engine without removing the front grill, so I decided to go that route. MAN!!! I have no idea how he was able to install and remove his motor as many times as he did. That process was a pain in the butt and I hope to god I don't have to pull it again. Luckily my neighbor was home to help my father and I in the process. After many hours, alot of cussing and smashed fingers, the motor goes in. Image
I'll finish up this weekend and try to start the beast up... fingers crossed.
honkysXJ
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 133
Joined: January 6th, 2013, 11:29 am
Stroker Displacement: almost stroked
Vehicle Year: 1997
Vehicle Make: jeep
Vehicle Model: cherokee

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by honkysXJ »

Nice looking build man I've been watching it the whole way,I'm basically doing the same one I'm interested to see your impressions of that cam,that's the only thing I really need to buy ,I was leaning towards lunati ,then thought about the mopar 229 to save some cash but I'm already deep in the bank account on this one but my gut keeps telling me go big or go home! Keep us posted,good luck when you fire that beast up !
:cheers:
Lil Dutchman
Where's the "any" key?
Where's the "any" key?
Posts: 22
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 9:34 am
Stroker Displacement: Low Buck 4.6
Vehicle Year: 1998
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Location: Warrenton, VA

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by Lil Dutchman »

Yesterday:
From where I left off, I finished connecting the remaining components (power steering, hose, wiring harness, and A/C - which I don't know why I have). Next I had to extend the air temp and vacuum connections to the new intake manifold.
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Now I was ready to start it. After priming the fuel, priming the oil pump and indexing the distributor, I turned the key and only heard it cranking away. At a couple points it started cranking faster to where I thought I was going to get it, but it didn't produce. I had my neighbor over again and he, my father and I checked everything and tried starting it for hours. I even checked to see if I was 180' out, and when that didn't work, we did everything over and over again. My neighbor went home and we called a family friend who owns a Evergreen Auto, and he came over to take a look.

We did the same things that we just did, re-indexed the distributor (just to make sure I was right) and checked to see if I was 180' out. Then he checked to ensure we had spark coming from the coil, spark coming from each distributor terminal, spark coming from each wire and then from each plug. We checked the injectors to see if they we functioning, they were. After aggressively turning the distributor, we found that it sounded better when turned counter clockwise, but we max'd out due to the distributor ears hitting the block. This is probably why some say to cut the ears off, I was unsure, if I should. So with that being said, my fathers buddy shuffled the plug wires counter clockwise on the distributor cap, lined up the mounting bolt hole and tried to start her up. And wouldn't you know it, it started right up. I took it up to 2000-2500 rpms to get the oil moving, I had great pressure and then shut it down. It was already 10pm, I had to work the next day, so I figured I'd break the cam in the next day.

Today:
The Jeep started right up, I still have the weird plug arrangement. I think I need to cut the ears off so I can just spin the entire distributor, but I'm ensure (I really need to get a timing gun on it). During the cam break-in, the oil pressure cam up to 40-50, the temp and held at 210', and I had a weird little tapping sound. I can't tell if its a sound coming from the valve train of if its coming from the exhaust, but its noticeable. 10 minutes into it I start hearing a very light thumping sound, which sorta sounded like it was coming from the exhaust. I've never had a header, so I don't know what they sound like, but all-in-all, it sounds decent. 15 minutes into I notice that the oil pressure is starting drop, it drifts below 40 and then ranges between 20-25. I got nervous when it dropped more, so I shut her down to look over everything. I did some reading, didn't find anything that helped, so I started it up again. The pressure ramped back to 40, and held steady for the remainder of the break-in, the sound was still there. I find that I'm worrying about everything. I drained the oil and it was supper thin, like water. I got nervous that antifreeze was mixing with my oil, but then again, I've never changed brand new, extremely hot motor oil. I strained everything and didn't see any metallic particles, one thing going for me.

Looking in the radiator, I see little particles floating. It doesn't exactly look oily, but I was a worried. I remember when I flushed the heating coil saw some of the same stuff, so I'm hoping thats it, plus I didn't see anything in the oil. It just had silver swirls which is from the moly lube. Let me know what you think.
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My wife and I took if for a spin, attempting to seat the rings, and things started off well. That ticking sound that I originally mentioned was still there and getting louder as I sped up in gears 1-3, but when I put it in 4th gear, the sound settled. I could still hear it but it was very low, pretty weird. The oil pressure was holding for a while, but when I came to a stop, the oil pressure dropped to 0. The pressure came up, when I started driving, but I headed back to look everything over. I know other builders mentioned that the true HP comes when the motors broken in, but I was surprised that I didn't feel any real increase, I did notice the fuel moving a little quicker. I looked over everything, and everything seemed correct. I popped the radiator cap and saw the same thing, so I felt pretty good that there weren't more particles or obvious signs of oil. Maybe my problem is the oil pressure sensor.

As far as the tick/psst sound. I guess I'll make a poor-mans stethoscope and zero in the location. I feel like its something to do with the exhaust header being that I don't hear anything coming from the valve cover when it's idling. I just hope that after this thing loosens up, that we actually see some increased power. I'm starting to get stink eye from my wife.

I guess the questions I have are:
1. Should I cut the ears off the distributor so that the #1 plug wires in the correct spot, or fine tune with what I have?
2. Why would the oil pressure drop like it did and then come right back up?
3. Is there anything else that I should check to make sure things are right?

Before any mods:
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Bored TB and CAI:
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Stroked:
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honkysXJ
I made it to triple digits!
I made it to triple digits!
Posts: 133
Joined: January 6th, 2013, 11:29 am
Stroker Displacement: almost stroked
Vehicle Year: 1997
Vehicle Make: jeep
Vehicle Model: cherokee

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by honkysXJ »

Curious if your cam came with tappets,lunati has new p/ns with cam only for example lunati old 63500 is now 10680700 cam only for $143.73
Lil Dutchman
Where's the "any" key?
Where's the "any" key?
Posts: 22
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 9:34 am
Stroker Displacement: Low Buck 4.6
Vehicle Year: 1998
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Location: Warrenton, VA

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by Lil Dutchman »

I took it for a little spin, 20 miles worth and I wasn't thrilled with the power, I know it needs to break in but I was expecting a little more than that. I started doing a little additional research on timing when I came across a forum which mentioned a pilot bearing. :doh: What the hell is a pilot bearing! I never heard of one and I definitely didn't put one in. If there are any other “first timers” out there, a pilot bearing is a small $15 bearing that is pressed in the end of you crankshaft, the end that marries to the transmission. Its job is to capture the end of the transmission shaft to prevent it from wobbling (at least that’s what I figure it does). The part reference number is 53009180AB.
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I was pretty upset just thinking of pulling the motor again, but then I came across this site http://dailydriventj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=931, which goes over pulling the transmission and transfer case, which is the route I ended up going. This made me change my transmission fluid which I'm sure it was way past due. It wasn't a bad process but having a helping hand and a motorcycle jack sure made it easier. I used a large socket and a rubber mallet to set the bearing.
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After everything was buttoned up, I took her for a spin and she drove great. I don't think it had anything to do with the bearing, but I started noticing more power. Actually, every time I started her up for another trip, she started feeling better. Still lacking in the uphill power from 5th gear, but I'm sure it'll come in time.

As far as the fluttering/ticking sound goes, I think it's from my exhaust. There's absolutely no noise from under my hood and I noticed a crack which recently formed just in front of the Cat, at the hanger. I'll weld it up and see if it makes a difference, might be time for a new exhaust anyways. So far, I'm pleased with the performance of the stroker, I can't wait until it's fully broken in. I'll keep you posted.
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SilverXJ
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Posts: 5789
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 7:14 am
Stroker Displacement: 4.6L
Vehicle Year: 2000
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Cherokee
Location: Radford, Va

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by SilverXJ »

Did you do a cam breakin? Ring seat procedure?

It may also take some time for the rings to properly seat.
Lil Dutchman
Where's the "any" key?
Where's the "any" key?
Posts: 22
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 9:34 am
Stroker Displacement: Low Buck 4.6
Vehicle Year: 1998
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Location: Warrenton, VA

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by Lil Dutchman »

I did the cam break-in, I changed the oil/filter, and I think I set the rings properly. I accelerated up to 50 and then allowed the engine break slow to 30, I probably did that 20 or more times. I just saw your break-in procedure and you mentioned doing that at high rpm's, I probably only did it in moderate rpm's. Maybe I'll take it out and do it again but at the high. I've been driving it slightly aggressive, nothing crazy, but I saw you mentioned driving it aggressively for the first 1000 miles, I guess I'll start doing that as well. This last run I actually got it above 60 for a little bit, but then slowed back down to 50. I honestly don't know what the proper break-in is from here, I read multiple different techniques. Some have a huge procedure while others say to drive how you plan to drive it. I just hope the rings got seated.

I just noticed that I'm leaking fluid from between the transmission and the transfer case, I guess I didn't torque the bolts down enough (too tight to get a torque wrench in there). I'll probably drop the skid plate today and try tightening them up. If that doesn't work, I've read people using RTV. Let me know if anyone has any better ideas for either issue.
JPrubo
Learning to use the board
Learning to use the board
Posts: 35
Joined: May 10th, 2013, 6:20 am
Stroker Displacement: 4.6

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by JPrubo »

If the fluid is leaking between the two then it's leaking out of one or the other. They don't exchange fluid and sealing with RTV will just mask a leaking seal. Either watch you levels to see which is losing fluid or get a leak detection kit that adds florescent particles to the fluid. Add it to one or the other and then check the leak with a black light if it glows then it's the one you added the kit too.
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SilverXJ
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Posts: 5789
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 7:14 am
Stroker Displacement: 4.6L
Vehicle Year: 2000
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Cherokee
Location: Radford, Va

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by SilverXJ »

x2 on the leak. The transmission and transfercase both have individual seals. There should be no fluid in that area to seal.

Sounds about right on the ring break in. Basically, put the engine under a load and run it up in the RPMs, but don't lug it. RPMS don't have to be that high though. Coasting down in gear is also good as that puts pressure on the rings as well.
Lil Dutchman
Where's the "any" key?
Where's the "any" key?
Posts: 22
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 9:34 am
Stroker Displacement: Low Buck 4.6
Vehicle Year: 1998
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Location: Warrenton, VA

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by Lil Dutchman »

I was going to replace the two seals you're speaking of, but it never leaked before and I know I didn't damage anything in the process. I tightened the connecting bolts and so far no leaks, I'll be keeping my eye on it though. I like the florescent particle trick, I've never heard of that one. I'll have to look into it.

I get a very random knock sound when shifting from 1st to 2nd gear. It almost requires a perfect storm of events to repeat. It's like I need to be turning on to a street, at higher rpm's, releasing the clutch, going from 1st to 2nd and then it happens, a snap sound. The only thing I can think of is the clutch hitting the pressure plate, but that doesn't make sense especially since I no have the pilot bearing in. Other than that, it's driving great.
Lil Dutchman
Where's the "any" key?
Where's the "any" key?
Posts: 22
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 9:34 am
Stroker Displacement: Low Buck 4.6
Vehicle Year: 1998
Vehicle Make: Jeep
Vehicle Model: Wrangler
Location: Warrenton, VA

Re: 4.6L Stroker, "Low Buck Low CR"

Post by Lil Dutchman »

I took a break from cruising for while due to low oil pressure. The pressure would start at 40 psi, but after the motor warmed up, the pressure at idle (around 600 rpm) would drop around 3 psi and at 2000 rpm's it was up to a high of 20 psi. I drove it for a little bit like that thinking it would cure itself but the stopped after I realized that I was dreaming. So she sat until I could research it. I was praying that I could find another solution other than fabricating a solid pin for the cam retention spring. I finally cam across multiple forums where others had the same problem after changing their oil. Most of the posts stated the same issue and 80% of the forums pointed to the oil filter as being the culprit. Specifically if you had a Fram oil filter, which I had. Well I slapped a Mobile 1 filter on, topped off the oil and what do you know, the pressure came up. After the motor warmed up, the pressure only dropped to 15psi at idle (600rpm) and cam back up to 35-37 psi at 2000 rpm's.

The only issue I have now if a little ticking sound, but I think thats from a crack I found in the exhaust right before the cat and possibly from a bolt that I had troubles torquing down on the header.

The motor runs solid, quiet and fast. It hit 80 mph like nothing and wants to keep on going. Now if I can only figure out the clinking sound that I mentioned when turning, shifting from 1st to 2nd, and getting on the gas. Gas mileage seems the same as before I stroked it, but i'd like to have flyingryan tune my system to bring it up around 20. Its fun to drive
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