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Budget overland stroker build

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XJOverland
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Vehicle Model: Cherokee

Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 14th, 2020, 9:12 pm

Goals:
- 87 octane ( I live at 3000 Ft. )
- Reliability
- Spend where it counts, save where I can. Do what I can myself.
- Learn stuff and get my kids involved.

Any feedback welcome! The build has started, but it's early days and I could use some help.

Step one:
Figure out what I have, what I can re-use, and what I need to buy or machine work I need done.

Starting point
- 1999 block, casting 53010449, has cam retainer
- 1993 head, casting 7120
- 1999 aluminium intake manifold
- 1990 crank, 3727 casting, 54mm nose
- 65mm throttle body from Dodge 4.7 mounted with adapter from TDS

I'll make separate posts for major components and include related questions.

Thanks for any input! This site has been a great resource and given me the courage to take this on.

XJOverland
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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 14th, 2020, 9:56 pm

First up the crank.

I bought a whole 4.2 engine a few years back for $100 knowing I'd build a stroker. I was told the engine ran perfect and was pulled from a YJ for a V8 swap.

Not being a seasoned engine builder, I think it looks fine? I can't catch my finger nail on any bearing surfaces.

Here is something interesting though, I believe this engine came from factory with 0.010 undersize main bearings! Rod bearings are standard.

Question: should I just buy new bearings? lightly refinish bearings surfaces? or does it need any kind of machine shop attention?

Details:
Crank ( 1990, casting 3727, 4 counterweight, 54mm nose, mileage unknown )

Main Bearning Journals:
- factory spec for std bearings: 2.4996 to 2.5001
- came with 0.010 undersized AMC bearings from factory?
- dial caliper measurements ( 1 = front / timing end ):
1) 2.4880
2) 2.4890
3) 2.4890
4) 2.4900
5) 2.4890
6) 2.4899
7) 2.4885

Rod Bearing Journals:
- factory spec: 2.0934 - 2.0955
- standard size AMC bearings from factory
- dial caliper measurements ( 1 = front / timing end ):
1) 2.0945
2) 2.0940
3) 2.0938
4) 2.0945
5) 2.0940
6) 2.0940

Hopefully my images show up ( 2nd post ):
Image

Image

Disclaimer: I'm new to using calipers/micrometer. I bought a decent dial caliper but it only measures to the thousands of an inch. I guessed the 10 thousands based on where the dial sat between markings.

XJOverland
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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 14th, 2020, 10:16 pm

Next up, the block

This is a 1999 block from a Jeep Cherokee. It had 186,000 miles on it. I drove it for a year before I pulled it and parted out the rest of the Jeep. The engine ran great but when warmed up, it had low oil pressure.

I like that it has the cam retainer so current plans are to use an OEM wide lobe cam with the retainer plate.

I honed the cylinders and took some measurements. I also cleaned up the deck with sandpaper wrapped around a 1ft square flat block, then checked for flatness. I couldn't fit my .002 feeler gauge anywhere under a flat edge laid across the deck.

Question: I'm not sure if I want to stick with just a honing or take it to get bored. I'm not sure if my measurements indicate good health or cylinders that are worn beyond a hone. Help me decide!

Details
Block ( 1999 Jeep Cherokee NVH cast, 186,000 miles )
- Notes:
- engine ran perfect but oil pressure would barely sit above zero when warm.
- good amount of sludge on tear down
- Cylinders:
- no scoring, slight lip, pistons and rings still slid out fine
- factory spec bore: 3.875 to 3.877 inches ?
- dial caliper measurements after honing ( 1 = front / timing end ):
1) 3.8770
2) 3.8771
3) 3.8771
4) 3.8770
5) 3.8789
6) 3.8789

Image

XJOverland
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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 14th, 2020, 10:24 pm

Next up, the cam

Initial thoughts are to use an OEM spec cam with a retainer plate.

Question, how does my cam look? I have a feeling my lobes are worn enough to warrant a new cam. Help me decide!

I will get new lifters. The old ones are all either flat or have a slight inverse dome. I'm thinking of going with Crower lifters.

Details:
Cam ( 1999 OEM, retainer plate style, 186,000 miles )
- Lobes:
- factory lobe lift spec: intake: 0.255, exhaust: 0.259
- dial caliper measurements ( 1 = front / timing end ):
1) 0.242
2) 0.239
3) 0.239
4) 0.239
5) 0.239
6) 0.241
7) 0.244
8) 0.241
9) 0.243
10) 0.241
11) 0.239
12) 0.243
- Bearing:
- dial caliper measurements ( 1 = front / timing end ):
1) 2.030 (spec 2.029 - 2.030 in.)
2) 2.020 (spec 2.019 - 2.020 in.)
3) 2.010 (spec 2.009 - 2.010 in.)
4) 2.000 (spec 1.999 - 2.000 in.)

Image

XJOverland
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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 14th, 2020, 10:34 pm

I've got more questions but I'll get to those later. Any help is much appreciated!

A couple pics for fun.
My exhaust manifold was rusty and cracked. I cleaned it up with washing soda and a battery charger in water, then welded the crack,and painted with VHT manifold paint.

Image
Image
Image
Image

XJOverland
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Preliminary parts list

Post by XJOverland » May 15th, 2020, 10:17 am

So here is my first stab at making a parts list and running numbers through the stroker calculator
  • re-use my 4.0 rods
  • new pistons ( UEM-KB424C -27.5cc dish, not sure if I will bore block yet or not? )
  • used 4.2 crank. use as is, or slight DIY polish
  • OEM spec wide-lobe cam for 99+ retainer style block ( re-use or buy new Enginetech ES242 )
  • EngineTech re-ring kit
    • new rod bearings, std size
    • new crank main bearings, 0.010 undersize
    • new rings, size based on whether I stick with honing or boring cylinders
    • lower gasket set
    • upper gasket set (may have to opt for a thinner head gasket? I currently don't plan on decking the block)
  • new cam bearings (std size)
  • new brass freeze plug kit
  • new oem style engine mounts
  • new Enginetech oil pump (is there a need for something better?)
  • new Enginetech timing set (I gather I can't get much better for the 99+ keyed cam?)
  • new oil filter o-rings
  • re-use factory head bolts?
  • Crower Camsaver Hydraulic Lifters 66031X3
  • Dodge 4.7 65mm throttle body on 99+ intake manifold using TDS adapter
  • injectors? haven't looked to hard at this yet but I know I'll have to upgrade
Question:
according to the stroker calculator, if I go with the pistons listed above, no overbore, and assume a standard head gasket the I get the following:
Liters: 4.52
Static Compression Ratio: 8.52
Dynamic Compression Ratio: 7.37
Dynamic Compression Ratio (@ Altitude): 6.77
Quench: 0.0725
Intake Valve Closing Angle: 53.95

I'm wondering if these numbers are sub-optimal even for a build targeting 87 octane?

If I tweak my plan and go with a 0.47 thick gasket, a 0.030 cylinder bore then I get the following:
Liters: 4.59
Static Compression Ratio: 8.69
Dynamic Compression Ratio: 7.51
Dynamic Compression Ratio (@ Altitude): 6.91
Quench: 0.0685
Intake Valve Closing Angle: 53.95

If I'm reading these calculations correctly, I get slightly better compression numbers in the second scenario but slightly better quench with the top scenario? Could use some help here. I can't tell if these numbers are fine, or if I'm aiming to low ;) I need to run 87 octane, but I don't need to run on cat piss either ;)

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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 18th, 2020, 9:28 pm

So having thought about things, I am going to take the block to a machine shop. I'll have them bore it 0.030 over, press in new cam bearings, and press the new pistons onto the old 4.0 rods.

So the biggest decision I have left to make is what pistons, and what dish. I'm researching options. Suggestions welcome.

Meanwhile, I went to the wreckers yard and found a 68mm throttle body from a 4.7 Grand Cherokee. I have an adapter plate on the way so I can bolt it to the 99 manifold.

99 manifold and Dodge 4.7 throttle body after cleaning and painting. I will gasket match the manifold and head at some point.:
Image

Old (59mm) vs new (68mm) throttle body:
[img]https://i4s.ca/photo/jeep/IMG_20200516_142317_1.jpg[/img

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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 18th, 2020, 9:51 pm

Stock 59mm throttle body vs 68mm Dodge 4.7 throttle body from a Grand Cherokee.
Image
The IAC and TPS are interchangeable. Some Dodge 4.7's (like from the Dakota or Durango) had the same throttle body except it uses a different style IAC valve. Don't get a throttle body that uses the wrong IAC!

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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 20th, 2020, 10:54 am

Current status is that I'm calling around to find a machine shop to press cam bearings, bore the cylinders, press piston pins, and hot tank the block.

Meanwhile, I'm doing what little things I can. The crank polished up really nicely with very little effort. Not bad for an all original 30 year old crank!
Image

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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by SkylinesSuck » May 22nd, 2020, 6:09 am

Interested to see how the throttle body works out. I spent a pile of money on one of the aftermarket 68mm tb's. Are you going to have to weld the throttle linkage on there?

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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 22nd, 2020, 9:50 am

SkylinesSuck wrote:
May 22nd, 2020, 6:09 am
Interested to see how the throttle body works out. I spent a pile of money on one of the aftermarket 68mm tb's. Are you going to have to weld the throttle linkage on there?
I believe so? I'm equipped to do that if I need to. There isn't a ton of information out there. The best I've found is a YouTube video of a guy who installed the same Dodge throttle body but he made his own adapter plate. In the video he describes what needed to be done to make the linkage work. The TDS adapter should arrive any day at which point I'll post up pictures and findings. 68mm might be overkill for my project but it would cost me the same or more to get my stock throttle body bored so why not!

I'll also detail what to look for when trying to find the right 4.7 throttle body. I went to the wreckers yard and pulled three of them before realizing the "right one" to get.

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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 23rd, 2020, 12:29 pm

So I'm trying to figure out pistons. I've been doing a lot of reading and playing around with the stroker calculator and I can't quite seem to find an off-the-shelf piston that will get me the quench/compression that I'm aiming for without decking the block. I've contacted Russ Pottenger to see if I can get some pistons with the right dish/pin-height to work with my build.

Meanwhile, I pressed the old pistons off the rods. I busted out the welder and quickly fabbed up a "tool" to get the pins out with my press. No apparent damage done to the old pistons but I don't plan on using them for anything anyway.

If I use the old rods, I will be fabricating a rod balancing jig to make sure they are all balanced.

Image
Image

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Re: Budget overland stroker build

Post by XJOverland » May 23rd, 2020, 7:43 pm

Made a tool to pull the cam bearings out. Might save me a couple bucks at the machine shop. I'll let them press the new ones in. I'm running out of stuff to do until my hardware is ordered/arrives.

Image
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