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Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: November 20th, 2018, 10:28 am
by The Beast
Just a bump post, currently pulling the wire harness out and building the MS one. Weathers not so great but I think I can get a
post up here with something new in about a week or so. Then I can get into settings and configuration stuff.

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: November 24th, 2018, 12:11 pm
by LRSimons
That's how I did my IAC. On the IAC connector, the inside pins are one coil and the outside are the other.

I did my wiring by cutting each wire at the ecu and running them inside to the MS. My alternator control and stock cluster work like factory. I'm sure the renix is different and a custom harness will be much cleaner.

What are your thoughts on the roller cam? Worth the shocker of a price tag?

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: November 24th, 2018, 8:50 pm
by The Beast
Yeah a lot of people don't run it but I would rather I did. Apparently if they set up well they are more resilient to overrun and can start
with no babysitting, which I prefer.

On the Renix the engine harness shares a bit with the power wires and the relays. I can pull that part out and work on that and put it back
in because they are more self contained. I'm going to borrow a few connections to the relay and make a rail for the injectors that will be
fused and have a plug so I can pull the harness back out for upgrades easily. The alternator is switched only by ignition, not computer controlled.
That part actually stayed in the Jeep and I didn't have to touch it luckily. Oddly the cam sensor uses a little stretch of wire before connecting
with a plug. I can cut that wire out and splice that before the connector and use the MS wires instead and have it connect like factory which is
pretty much the goal for me.

As for the cam as it currently sits it feels about the same as the last fresh rebuild but it bogs badly then leans out (obviously haha) but it pulls
very hard at like 2500-5500 when I turned the map up. Like a quick 2-3 shift from 40 will get me to 170 in what feels like in seconds. Butt dyno
tells me it's at least as good as the last cam, running well. So I guess I will get to find out how much is actually on the table when I get this installed and tuned.

This is a good video on how it would run in comparison. Right now imagine a little bit faster than this. That video is also on the Renix computer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8TUNdv6-kY

From what it looks like, I believe it's worth it. The cam is good for a little bit of boost as well if I decide to do that.

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: November 24th, 2018, 9:00 pm
by The Beast
I also should say that my channel has some other videos with some foolery lol. But I have a recent video that I made about
3 weeks ago or so. It shows how it sounds and it's much different than the other videos. The only real difference is the
mufflers are the OG 40 series in old vids versus the current delta 50's. The rest of the exhaust is the same but yeah, I can
tell the motor runs and sounds waaay different.

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: December 10th, 2018, 11:35 pm
by The Beast
Well,.. I can only drag out building the wiring harness so far lol, because I'm still waiting on my widebands. I can't believe it has taken this long but I decided to wait for them then slap everything in. Tracking indicates it's coming from Toronto today so like 2 days probably at my door :/ mail carriers...

I held off buying TS for now and decided to move my IAC valve to the intake manifold and weld a bracket on to that. Little cleaner, straighter shot. Other than that I'm just coasting along. Maybe I'll make my seat belt mounts tomorrow too ;p.

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: December 29th, 2018, 10:40 am
by The Beast
A bit of an update, I finally got my Widebands/Guage about a week ago, facking post service.. Anywho,
I managed to get fancy and make a harness for it so it'll look factory. Was wiring last night before work
and just a few wires to do. I bought TS and tried to make a tune I think I may have cobbled something
together that might allow it to start. I do have it setup using all factory hookups, I'll find out if it's compatible.

I have a base tune that I'm going to start with here I have very little confidence that it will work like butter
but it shouldn't hurt it, it's very conservative from what I've seen. I've placed some values for the VE generator
and it's set itself up for 24lbs injectors because I bought them before I found out how much bigger I actually
needed but that's later problems, that I can figure out later. Man getting an ignition map was probably the
hardest thing. ANYBODY that builds these (should say slam together) are 98% boosted with mostly stock
parts and aftermarket cam. So their timing table would be off in left field compared to what I need.

I did manage to get something to work off of that I peeled from a close to stock NA FI 4.0L so I worked off
of that. I tried to interpolate that table as best I can and backed off timing about 2-3 degrees across the board.
So I'll find out how or bad that was haha.

SO here is the tune, take a looksie, make you own thoughts. If I'm missing something that's critical, maybe
try to tell me if you want lol.


TunerStudio 3028 - MS3X 357 Firmware 1.5.1
Jeep Renix Stroker - Copy.rar

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: January 9th, 2019, 7:51 pm
by The Beast
OK back again. Have been sick, like terribly sick, still am a little bit but anyway,.. I managed to get a few things done yesterday and today.

I got everything hooked up and to the point of turn key so the wideband is on there and calibrated MS all tucked in there and comfy, I turn
the key and TS sees stuff everything lights cranks... but doesn't start or even a hint of wanting to turn over. Everything is there, the only
thing I'm not entirely sure of is if it's getting spark. Since it dropped a ton of snow and I was tired I didn't get that far to check if there was
any getting to the plugs, I'll be taking a look tomorrow.

Another thing I have noticed is that I seem to have no RPM signal. I was thinking the RPM may be to low to detect but I'm thinking now
that MS should see it no problem. So I think that could be an issue as well. I went through the manual again and I saw a part about using
ignition control modules. It says to hook up the ignition input to MS Spark "A" and Tach out to MS Tacho. But diagrams are mentioning
that MS Tacho is an OUTPUT, IDK I may be over analyzing this crap but I'd figure I would mention it.

I think I'll get the tacho wire out and pin that back in the harness and run it to the tach signal in the ICM, just have it ready to try in case.
I think I should try to get a response first over at the MS3X forum first. A guy from DIY seems to react quickly on their boards.

Umm I tried to save some logs.. but I seem to have a problem with that, I'm probably just missing something I'm not used to the software
yet. I did get some snap shots of what the logger was showing at the time. I got a tooth, composite and sync log pics. I think I should make
a thread over at the MS3X boards with the same logs. Hopefully I can figure out this fast and get to a wiring diagram and gets some good
working info out for people. Then get to some tuning and get those maps out as well.

I'll post up my stuff again.
Tooth LOG Snapshot.png
Sync Error LOG Snapshot.png
Composite LOG Snapshot.png

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: January 15th, 2019, 7:29 pm
by The Beast
Today I managed to get something done haha! I was having an issue with getting a cam signal but I got it to work. I made a harness
that used a separate 12v power source and used a 1kohm pull up to get a clean Cam signal from the distributor.

The wiring I have made is like this:
(12v+) to Blue wire
(Cam In) to Gray/tracer wire
(GND) to Engine ground.
1k ohm resister between the Gray and Blue wire.
This works

Although this info should all over the place but it seems that when it comes to Renix everything goes to the shitter information wise.

Here is a pic for what I did with mine.
20190115_212019.jpg
The rest of this is pretty much tuning, I'll include some logs and my current tune file. Tomorrow I'll be all day on this thing
and I hope to get some progress. I want to be able to drive at least around the block with it without stumbling or backfiring.
Wish me luck!
Jan15 2019 - 18.03 New sync curcuit Cold Start.rar

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: January 16th, 2019, 4:20 am
by SkylinesSuck
Keep up the good work man!

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: January 29th, 2019, 5:05 pm
by The Beast
OK I'm back again. This yoyo weather is more of a nuisance than anything at this point. Just waiting for the plus temperature
to arrive this weekend. Warmer weather makes this easier than minus 30 lol. OK I got a question here:

Does anyone know **WHEN** the cam signal is supposed to fire on a RENIX sync? In teeth or degrees preferably.

I ASSSuumed,.. that it would trigger pretty much exactly the same time as the Chryco wheels, approx. 146°/506°.
I figured at 146°ish would be around the 27 tooth mark ATDC. I figure it would be close enough but the problem
with that is my cam sensor can't get there without being way out of wack. The way it's setup now is stock aside
from the cam. If I can get a reference I can just offset it in TS.

Here's my current waveform:
CKP-CMP Log Jan26 Dist Comparison.png
It seems correct but I got a feeling it isn't, this what I've found so far:


~~Yee old Renix~~
RENIX EFI Crank Timing.jpg
Pretty ain't it? No cam info. Easiest obviously would be find someone with good running Renix and log its CMP/CKP wave
if not done so already. I'm hoping someone might know. Looking it up online yielded no waveforms aside from some
Russian sites with poor ones, w/o cam info wouldn't be able to figure that out anyway.

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: January 29th, 2019, 5:06 pm
by The Beast
BTW I did figure out the CKP polarity was backwards. That cleaned up the crank signal noticeably and crispened up the
gap detection quite a bit. So I know now that CKP and CMP sensors are reverse polarity in Megasquirt3X Renix.

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: January 29th, 2019, 5:36 pm
by SkylinesSuck
I appreciate all the effort you are putting in to making this work and most of all documenting it!

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: January 29th, 2019, 6:05 pm
by The Beast
Ye I'm still stumbling through it lol. The minute this fires properly I'm writing everything down! hehheh :D

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: January 30th, 2019, 6:16 am
by LRSimons
Sounds like you're making progress. Can't help you much with the renix specifics, but on my OBD1 I needed the pullups on both the crank and cam sensors.

Do you have a rpm signal as of yet? If yes, is your spark output is set correctly? Firing order and cranking rpm set in ts? I know I missed the firing order setup on mine and it was trying to run a 4 cyl or something :lol:



Thanks for recording this! I have been meaning to do a writeup on setting up ms on obd1, however it was almost a year ago when I did mine and I've probably forgotten most of it...

Re: Tuning with MS3X

Posted: January 30th, 2019, 8:56 am
by The Beast
Yeah I'm making some headway on this. But like I said about the weather lol I picked a bad time to do all this haha.

I have RPM and it's stable. The spark is set correctly, it's a single coil running a distributor (obviously lol) the output
is going to the ICM and that is routed through a CDI box that wired to the coil. Spark works beautifully in this setup
I had this working great before touching the ECM. So I know it works before making the harness for MS3X.

I checked the wiring half a dozen times or so before putting it in making sure the lettering is right cause lots of people
mess that up. I wanted to make sure for sure that it was right, along with the injectors. I was nervous about the injectors
because that can easily be messed up too lol. I verified the wiring with logging the outputs.

It was running on batch (after dumping an 1/8th trying to start it) and with the dizzy twisted plus the cam out of phase
one tooth which I didn't know at that time. So I returned everything back to stock setting adjusted the timing with a light
and setting the offset in TS and now it takes much much less fuel to hint a want to start in sequential.

It would fire and slightly run but pop and miss really bad and then shut off again a few seconds later but it is set to use
far less fuel than what it did on batch couple weeks ago. But i'm not worried about that atm. I am worried however
about the sync timing because that can actually mess with the code in MS. So I figure if I can get it to sync properly
MS won't have a fit and should lose the sync errors and run properly. But ye know that crap is all unknown until I get my ass
frozen out there and try things lol.

I feel like this :deadhorse: when I check wiring haha.

Current base tune as of now:
CurrentTune 30-01-2019.rar
Take a looksie. There's not really much going on there but I've checked it over so much that it makes me physically tired
just looking at it now lol.