Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

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NickInTimeFilms
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by NickInTimeFilms »

It got up to 240*F the night before the noise started. If I push on the top ring it will set flush with the rest of the piston. Can't do that on the other side but it seems like it's caught on something on the thrust side.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by SilverXJ »

NickInTimeFilms wrote:It got up to 240*F the night before the noise started.
That pretty hot.

I'd also question that dent on the piston skirt.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by Cheromaniac »

NickInTimeFilms wrote:I think my con rod clearance is good
Image
You're forgetting one thing. The con rod clearance may be good when the engine's cold but it can rapidly disappear when it reaches normal operating temp. Since your engine only started knocking 10 minutes after start up, I wouldn't rule this out as a possibility just yet.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by optmaxx »

I would also look into why it overheated, and if your temp gauge is accurate. Maybe it was hotter than the gauge was showing? Are you running a fail safe stat? I had one in another car fail, but it took awhile for the fail safe to kick in, but it still ran hot because it didn't open all the way. I think I remember you (maybe it wasn't you) mention that you didn't burp your cooling system because it wasn't necessary on Renix engines? If it turns out that that those cooling systems do need to be burped, then hot spots can develop in the engine.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by NickInTimeFilms »

Cheromaniac wrote: You're forgetting one thing. The con rod clearance may be good when the engine's cold but it can rapidly disappear when it reaches normal operating temp. Since your engine only started knocking 10 minutes after start up, I wouldn't rule this out as a possibility just yet.
Is there a certain measurement I can take to check for proper clearance?
optmaxx wrote:I would also look into why it overheated, and if your temp gauge is accurate. Maybe it was hotter than the gauge was showing? Are you running a fail safe stat? I had one in another car fail, but it took awhile for the fail safe to kick in, but it still ran hot because it didn't open all the way. I think I remember you (maybe it wasn't you) mention that you didn't burp your cooling system because it wasn't necessary on Renix engines? If it turns out that that those cooling systems do need to be burped, then hot spots can develop in the engine.
When it overheated my friend was driving it up a real steep hill. If you're familiar with Pennsylvania Route 501, it has an 8-1/2 degree grade for miles at a time. By the time we got to the top he noticed the gauge was about to go into the red and then steam started coming out of the radiator cap. At that point we were at the top so we pulled over to let it cool and check it out. The cap may have been failing so we let it cool and topped up radiator before going back down. I replaced the cap when I got home after the trip.

I converted the Renix closed system to the newer style open system so it is self burping, and after that hill climb the overflow bottle was nearly completely full of hot coolant so I may look into a better radiator or hood vents as the dual electric fans struggle under very heavy use. I'm using a hi-flow motorad thermostat which has an air jiggler but no fail safe. The cooling system still had a little air in it by the time I made it home, but on the 3-1/2 hour trip up it did great on temps. I'm going to keep a much closer eye on it now and I'll try to verify that the gauge sender is accurate.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by Cheromaniac »

NickInTimeFilms wrote:Is there a certain measurement I can take to check for proper clearance?
I don't know what minimum clearance is required between the underside of the piston and the small end of the rod but looking at your photo, the upper half of the rod has blue discoloration which can only happen when it's subjected to extreme heat. Having seen the scuffing on the piston and the cylinder wall, I'd say the friction from the piston scraping against the bore is what generated the heat and could be the reason why the engine overheated.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by NickInTimeFilms »

Cheromaniac wrote:
I don't know what minimum clearance is required between the underside of the piston and the small end of the rod but looking at your photo, the upper half of the rod has blue discoloration which can only happen when it's subjected to extreme heat. Having seen the scuffing on the piston and the cylinder wall, I'd say the friction from the piston scraping against the bore is what generated the heat and could be the reason why the engine overheated.
But I probably would have heard the piston slap if it started scuffing the cylinder no? I figure the damage would have started when the sound started.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by SilverXJ »

NickInTimeFilms wrote:Is there a certain measurement I can take to check for proper clearance?
You can try using a feeler gauge on the under side of the piston while rocking it on the rod. Or look for witness marks.
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There is why it overheated.
Cheromaniac wrote:I don't know what minimum clearance is required between the underside of the piston and the small end of the rod but looking at your photo, the upper half of the rod has blue discoloration which can only happen when it's subjected to extreme heat.
That is from heating the rod during piston and rod assembly. You need to expand the pin bore in the rod.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by NickInTimeFilms »

Silver XJ is spot on about the connecting rod. They make rod heaters to expand the rods so that the wrist pin can be fit it with a tighter tolerance and resist slipping out when the pistons are hot in the engine.

I didn't see any marks on the underside of the piston so I don't think that was an issue, but i'll see if I can measure the new piston when they are together.

As for the dual electric set-up, my mechanical fan bearing was shot so I had to remove it. Interesting point you bring up though because I do have the older style e fans which aren't as powerful as the new ones. Maybe I'll do some CFM research and look for something stronger.

My engine guy came by to check out the bore and it's still within spec. He set up the Piston to Wall clearance at .004" originally and he just polish honed it to get rid of the "deep" scratches. He noticed the wrist pin may have binded up slightly so he's going to order 1 piston, 1 ring set, and 1 wrist pin. We'll see how things go
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by SilverXJ »

NickInTimeFilms wrote:As for the dual electric set-up, my mechanical fan bearing was shot so I had to remove it. Interesting point you bring up though because I do have the older style e fans which aren't as powerful as the new ones. Maybe I'll do some CFM research and look for something stronger.
Gradon has been using two of the newer style fans (IIRC) and he reports they work well. I'm still a bit skeptical. I had planned on converting mine to e-fans, but I have not gotten around to it yet.
My engine guy came by to check out the bore and it's still within spec. He set up the Piston to Wall clearance at .004" originally and he just polish honed it to get rid of the "deep" scratches. He noticed the wrist pin may have binded up slightly so he's going to order 1 piston, 1 ring set, and 1 wrist pin. We'll see how things go
No doubt that piston is trash. The wrist pin binding up is possible especially with your overheating. Good luck and keep an eye on that temp gauge.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by xdark »

Alot of color on that rod from installing wrist pin. Too much heat during assy? Loss of strength ? Warped ?
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by gradon »

That rod definitely was cooked! I've been using two of the '97+ 10-blade e-fans on my manual '96 for many years here in the DC metro area(summer temps get in the humid 90s). I can't speak for automatic(oil goes through rad), lifted, grill-blocked, and/or improperly geared XJs.
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by xdark »

Whats the specs of the piston rings and ring gap?
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by NickInTimeFilms »

gradon wrote:I've been using two of the '97+ 10-blade e-fans on my manual '96 for many years here in the DC metro area(summer temps get in the humid 90s). I can't speak for automatic(oil goes through rad), lifted, grill-blocked, and/or improperly geared XJs.
After doing some fan research, the 99+ 10 blade fans seem like a good plug and play choice at 2,300 CFM. I hear a lot of talk about 2 speed taurus fans that can pull 4,500 CFM on high which is pretty insane. Interesting find is that Volvo makes 2 speed fans that seem to do quite well but are much thinner and don't need to be trimmed as much.

As for my XJ, it has a 91+ style Radiator with cap and overflow bottle, new water pump and thermostat, flushed the system with water and rad flush about 5 times to get most of the old crap out, and I have 2 old style xj e fans since my mech fan crapped out. I have a winch that covers some of the lower half of the grill, and when choosing a front bumper I paid lots of attention to winch height as the Aj's Slikrok bumper has a low profile. 6 In lift, 35x12.5 KM2 tires and 4.56 gears. I've done all the important things to bring everything back to stock range.

My engine temperature most noticeably rises on the highway of all things. I can wheel it all day without issues but with the old, failing engine it would run 230*f at 55mph on flat terrain and any sort of incline would make it rise even more so i had to pull over and pop the hood to let it cool. The new engine runs cooler than the old one and did fantastic on the trip up. The first occasion of higher than normal temps were on 501 so it was a bit of a surprise.

I'm going to look into powerful e fans and possible a full rad shroud to better direct flow. If that's not enough for summer then hood vents will be the next course of action. If I still have issues I may look into a full aluminum rad and possibly aux trans cooler if either are worth anything. I'll get to the bottom of that in due time, but I usually have overcooling issues in the winter; about 160*f running temp going any faster the 30 mph.
xdark wrote:Whats the specs of the piston rings and ring gap?
I'll see if I can get a measurement of the new ring when the parts come in and maybe the old one if my engine guy doesn't toss them. I asked to keep the piston incase I ever need to inspect it again. It'll make a nice conversation piece. haha
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Re: Engine Ticking Noise driving me crazy!

Post by xdark »

Ya i was asking about the specs of the old rings. Could be the culprit.
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