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Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Performance mods and Advanced Stroker discussion.
johnj92131
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by johnj92131 » February 20th, 2016, 5:55 pm

You need to talk to one of the tuners on here who has tuned turbocharged strokers. Chris @ christuned.com comes to mind.

You are also going to want an OBD II control system. Just so you can retune it properly to work with the turbo. Getting it properly tuned is really important for driveability, longevity, and power.

duck454ss
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by duck454ss » April 20th, 2016, 10:36 am

kind of a double post but can i swap my 05 ingition into a 98 block without issues? i found a donor block from a 98 cherokee but i need to make sure i can simply swap over the ignition into the block.

when they went distributorless they didnt change the block casting did they? they just made a cam position sensor that replaced the distributor correct?
Injection is nice but I'd rather be blown..... 4.6L, Eaton M112, Edelbrock Head, 31cc Dish Pistons, 1.7 Harland Sharp...

duck454ss
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by duck454ss » May 29th, 2016, 7:28 am

well i have a block from a 98 TJ being stripped and cleaned.

change of plans have come along and to do the turbo requires too many variables. meaning i have to keep this build on a budget. the change of plans is that instead of a turbo i will be using a supercharger. cool part is hat it is an M122 (not M112) from a 2007 Ford mustang shelby GT500. the really cool part is that i'm buying it for 550 canadian..... so more like 20 american lol ok more like 400... Turbo alone was going to cost me well over 1000 plus inter-cooler blah blah blah... so my saved money will go towards manifold modification and a water meth system

yes this blower is massive for a jeep stroker..... but here is my thought. because of its size it can build boost at a relatively lower blower RPM without generating as much heat as a wound out M90. as a side effect my planned max boost will be bumped up to 10-12psi since this blower can build 8psi easily in a 5.4 V8. I will not be aiming to push the power limits of this engine although this might be a pretty wild ride. if all goes right i'll be coasting down the highway at 65mph at 2300 rpm and 1-3psi boost....

too be continued...... thoughts?
Injection is nice but I'd rather be blown..... 4.6L, Eaton M112, Edelbrock Head, 31cc Dish Pistons, 1.7 Harland Sharp...

krom
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by krom » May 29th, 2016, 7:36 am

I'm a turbo guy so here is my take

you can get turbos for less than $500 cad.

Turbos are much more efficient, especially at part throttle, light load cruzing.

This turbo is prob too big for your application, but you get the idea.
http://www.vsracing.net/catalog/product ... 5fa81c6133

duck454ss
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by duck454ss » May 29th, 2016, 8:02 am

krom wrote:I'm a turbo guy so here is my take

you can get turbos for less than $500 cad.

Turbos are much more efficient, especially at part throttle, light load cruzing.

This turbo is prob too big for your application, but you get the idea.
http://www.vsracing.net/catalog/product ... 5fa81c6133
completely agree that turbo's are more efficient and there are some good deals out there on certain turbos. But to find the right turbo i'll be over 1000 canadian.
Injection is nice but I'd rather be blown..... 4.6L, Eaton M112, Edelbrock Head, 31cc Dish Pistons, 1.7 Harland Sharp...

duck454ss
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by duck454ss » August 10th, 2016, 8:43 pm

well i've neglected this thread a little.... or alot.

so here is what IS happening

Block is a 97-98 out of a TJ
Deck Height after leveling things off: 9.446"
Edelbrock head w/ over sized valves
Pistons
Bore: 3.905"
Compression Distance: 1.375"
Dish: 31CC with valve reliefs
Rings (Total Seal): top 1/16" AP steel gap-less, Second 1/16" gapped molly coated, Oil Ring 3/16" standard tension
Crank: Scat 258 4 CW 3.895"
Connecting Rods: Scat 6.125"

Piston top should be about 0.015" above the block deck. Depending on what the combustion chamber volume is after cleaning up the head i'll pick my head gasket thickness.
Estimated static CR is 8.5:1 with a head volume of 60cc (55cc from factory) and a 0.050" head gasket. I went with a gap less ring to help keep all that pressure in the combustion chamber. I chose to use an AP steel ring because it can handle big boost and can resist a little abuse from detonation.

Cam Shaft: Comp Cam 68-235-4 ish
Duration: 253/261
Lift @ Valve: 0.477/0.493 (w/1.6 rockers)
Separation: 113 Deg
Overlap: 31 deg (overlap @ 0.050 lift should be almost non existent)
Rockers: Harland Sharp rollers 1.7:1 (0.507/0.524 lift)

Given that the intake on this cam closes 54 Deg after BDC i only have and effective stroke of 3.298". without boost i'll have a dynamic compression ratio of 7.3:1. with boost (10psi) it will sit around 12.3:1.

To feed this monster i'm using an Eaton M112 off of a 2003 Mustang SVT. For every rotation it pumps out 112ci of air assuming 100%VE. The crank pulley is 7.2" and the blower pulley is 3". Based on VE charts i found on the good old interweb at 2000RPM i'll be at 5 psi boost and wont hit 10psi till about 3500-4000RPM. The cool thing about this blower is it has an internal bypass valve. if the boost exceeds max psi it opens a path that connects the high and low pressure sides. Another added bonus to this valve is that if there is enough vacuum behind the TB (between the TB and the blower inlet) it will open the bypass valve. this will minimize the power needed to roll the blower during low load/idle.

now with all that air and my dynamic CR being what it is under boost..... i'll be running water meth injection thats boost referenced. Once i build over 5-6psi boost it will start adding some liquid love to keep detonation down.

seems pretty crazy but if it all comes together it should have wild bottom end torque and get ok mileage for being a 400hp rolling brick lol....
Injection is nice but I'd rather be blown..... 4.6L, Eaton M112, Edelbrock Head, 31cc Dish Pistons, 1.7 Harland Sharp...

duck454ss
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by duck454ss » August 10th, 2016, 8:57 pm

The Blower
Image
The Pistons
Image
The head (before tweaking)
Image
and a box full of goodies
Image
The Jeep
Image
Injection is nice but I'd rather be blown..... 4.6L, Eaton M112, Edelbrock Head, 31cc Dish Pistons, 1.7 Harland Sharp...

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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by SkylinesSuck » August 10th, 2016, 10:32 pm

Very interested in this. Watching closely. Keep the updates coming!

Russ Pottenger
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by Russ Pottenger » August 10th, 2016, 11:31 pm

Adam,

Thanks for purchasing my Stroker kit tailored for your boosted application. Looking forward to following the progress of your project

Russ

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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by Cheromaniac » August 10th, 2016, 11:48 pm

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out. Cant wait to see the results on the dyno.
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by jeepxj3 » August 11th, 2016, 1:33 am

WOW, sounds like a great project. Can't wait to see more.

duck454ss
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by duck454ss » August 11th, 2016, 6:06 am

Russ Pottenger wrote:Adam,

Thanks for purchasing my Stroker kit tailored for your boosted application. Looking forward to following the progress of your project

Russ
thanks for working with me and getting me what i needed.
Injection is nice but I'd rather be blown..... 4.6L, Eaton M112, Edelbrock Head, 31cc Dish Pistons, 1.7 Harland Sharp...

duck454ss
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by duck454ss » August 11th, 2016, 6:50 am

So i've gotten a few questions and concerns about my build so i'm going to address them here to share the info.

How will you bolt on the SC to the engine? i bought a dorman manifold that will be cut and have a mounting plate welded to it. (there is a thread on here that did something similar)

What size TB will you be using? i will be using the stock 2003 mustang TB which is twin 57mm TB on the OEM intake elbow. Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch about TPS. My jeep and the 2003 mustang TB's use a 3 wire TPS with the same 5v voltage sweep. so i'm gambling on using a pigtail and swapping the jeep connection for a mustang connection ($35.00 pigtail). aftermarket TB's are 4-500 bones and i wasn't willing to spend that on an experiment. i still might have to bump up the TB size later on but we will see how things pan out.

Crank pulley size (is mine actually 7.2")? i'm using a professional products harmonic balancer. specs can be found here. (https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ ... /overview/) i do know that there are a bunch of different balancer sizes out there but this is the specs on the one i'm using.

I have to look at my blower again but i may have miss quoted myself on the operation of my bypass valve. i was under the impression that it functioned off boost and vacuume. internal BOV and opened bypass at low load... i may have been wrong on the BOV part... i'll get back to ya'll.

Compression ratio choice: i chose the CR i did so that this jeep could function on shitty gas if needed. once under boost the DCR moves towards 10-12:1 and that region needs better fuel to prevent detonation issues. because i'm paranoid i will probably run water meth to make sure detonation isn't an issue.

Cam Choice: the question was raised if the intake side is too big...... i know a few people that have run a cam similar to this or more aggressive and it ran/idled like a champ. given i have a blower and this thing will breath better than stock i'm not concerned.

Injectors: i'll be running Ford Performance 50 or 60# injectors..... i cant remember off the top of my head but probably 50's.

Fuel: i'm going to put an inline fuel pump to make sure we have all the fuel needed. but i'm also considering doing an in tank upgrade. eventually i want to run a GenRight Safari tank soooooooo i'm not sure what i'm going to do till it happens lol....

Tuning: i'll eventually be working with FlyinRyan if he will have me lol...... plan is to work with him and get some dyno time to get it all dialed in.


if anyone has questions or see holes in my logic keep the questions coming....... i've been brainstorming this build for years but that doesnt mean i've missed something or havent even contemplated other things. plus i like sharing info with like minded power junkies.
Injection is nice but I'd rather be blown..... 4.6L, Eaton M112, Edelbrock Head, 31cc Dish Pistons, 1.7 Harland Sharp...

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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by VooDuuChild » November 9th, 2016, 8:22 am

Any updates?? Would love to know how this worked out....I have a boosted daily driver commuter car that is finally on the road.....I am now all about forced induction. Wow.

duck454ss
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Re: Turbo Stroker DD going for economy

Post by duck454ss » December 1st, 2016, 2:26 pm

VooDuuChild wrote:Any updates?? Would love to know how this worked out....I have a boosted daily driver commuter car that is finally on the road.....I am now all about forced induction. Wow.

Its still a work in progress...... work hasnt been going the way i'd like so i asked my machine shop to only work on my project in the mean time.

Currently the block and mains have been leveled. the block was 0.006" banana meaning the ends were 0.006" higher than the center all the way through the block. so we machined the deck and mains to level it all out.

The pistons are going to get sent out to have Teflon skirts and ceramic tops.... never really thought about it but the Teflon skirting allows for tighter piston to cylinder tolerances. Teflon allows for a lower friction between the two materials meaning less need for space to ensure oil has access between skirt and cylinder wall.... obviously there is still space for oil to access but there is a tighter tolerance meaning less play for the piston to roll/cant within the cylinder... over all better compression seal.

still haven't started any head work..... currently ordering in some Manley valves to work with.
Injection is nice but I'd rather be blown..... 4.6L, Eaton M112, Edelbrock Head, 31cc Dish Pistons, 1.7 Harland Sharp...

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