Cam bearing failure (pics)

Performance mods and Advanced Stroker discussion.
Don H Jr
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by Don H Jr »

So many VARIABLES when we experiment in our engines without knowing all the ins and outs that must be perfectly coordinated to keep this very sensitive to change engine in one piece after a rebuild, that often isn't done by our own hands, or if it is, maybe it's our first engine rebuild or we don't have all the info we need to make things work right during breakin. Freeze plug depths vary, right? Can cause cam problems. We monkey around with clearances but don't know what pressures/volume we must run to make up the differences.
Often, I suppose, we can look at all this kind of thing, and actually the big problem could be in the basic assembly, like an important small part missing or not installed properly.
I wonder if the cam bearings were put in the appropriate spots in the block? So many Chevy machinists talked about on our sites putting together 4L engines according to Chevy's forgiving tolerances.
Oh, well, good luck. I'm depressed abit to about your problem and look forward to you sorting it out and sharing it with us. I've yet to build a stroker so the more I hear the better off I will be when my time comes to get stroked.

Don H. Jr.
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by basscat »

I didn't see a taper issue in the bearing wear signatures so I'm guessing that isn't the issue. At this point, I believe the machinist performed according to the Jeep FSM and 505's instructions.

Don H Jr - I knew I was heading into uncharted waters when I went this route and am willing to deal with the hassles. I am encouraged by scalper's comments and had already concluded it was a oil volume issue. The being said, we wanted to pull everything apart, re-inspect, clean and re-assemble for round II. I am patient and will see this through. I will also keep this post updated so, hopefully, folks like you can benefit. If you think this part is bad, wait until you discover (if you have OBD-II) that you will probably have to tune for open loop mode and what is involved. I'm looking forward to programming cells to adjust AFR and timing! Once I get all of the mechanical stuff done, I plan to morph it into a Brute pickup (I'll do all of the body and paint work myself).
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Don H Jr
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by Don H Jr »

Very cool the morph idea. Something still doesn't add up tho on the low oil pressure thing. 505 would have advised HV or HP if they thought critical, right? THere are a couple a other things that can rob you of oil pressure on a new rebuild. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but others will know what it may be.

Good luck Brother.

Don Jr
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by basscat »

Don, the guy at 505 was a nice guy but he seemed really busy. There were a couple things that I had to send back to him or he had to send me because, in my opinion, he forgot my specific requirements and sent me what most people order. I chocked it up to him being busy and dealt with it. Given that situation, I can easily see him not telling me I needed a high volume pump.

I just checked his website and he only sells a blueprinted HV oil pump. Does this mean that standard oil pumps aren't worth blueprinting or does it mean he puts the HV pump in everything and (like my other stuff) assumes others do the same thing? Who knows? Earlier today, I left another message asking him to call me. I am planning to buy more of his products so I'm very interested to see how responsive he is.
Don H Jr
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by Don H Jr »

I know the latest deal is retrofitted MOPAR roller lifters with a bit of creativeness on the bar that hooks two of them together. Your setup is a sort of a prototype, as you know the lack of hardness will not last as long, but that's a part of the deal going in.
The rest of the valve train is all reusable almost forever.
Roller is best way, just about the hardness of core to be used and all that bread to be laid out. You are a pioneer for sure, a step of some of us at this point. I've always researched this subject, cause I want one too.
It's just a bit early in the evolution for me, timing isn't right quite yet...but someday before too long a discovery will be made and one thing's for sure...nothing rollerized ever gets cheaper, lol. Unless factory parts can be used/adapted somehow...the way hot rodders have been doing for almost a hundred years now.
Chevies worked all this sort of thing out on the race tracks of the world with multi-million dollar budgets and tons of talented engineers. Our little Jeep inliner roller world is operated on a shoestring and by the brave, like yourself.

Don H. Jr. :brickwall: :boom: :idea: :frustrated:
Last edited by Don H Jr on June 9th, 2010, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
scalper
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by scalper »

basscat when you put that motor back together pay attention to the lifter preload ,those lifters only require .02 to.04 preload.dont just take my word for it but check comp cams website on comp pro magnum lifters which are the one we are using. most hydralic lifters require more like .030 to.050.
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by basscat »

scalper, that's some good info you've served up. Especially since you've got real world experience. So far, I've learned from you that when running a 505 roller, I should:

1) run a HV oil pump
2) set lifter preload in the .02 - .04 range
3) the roller lifters used are comp's pro magnums

The comp website says to adust the preload while the engine is at operating temp. I'm using new stock rocker arms and figure shims below them are my only option. Do you have adjustable rockers?

Thank you for following this thread and posting the specifics.
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by scalper »

no im using quadratec 1.6 roller rockers. i know 505 was using com pro magnum lifters till about dec of 09 , zach at 505 started using crower lifters after that so you may have those also.i compared both lifters even though they look identical i didnt ( but need too) do research on weather crowers preload at the same .02 to .04 as the comp pro magnum. my rockers adjust semilar to yours with shims under the rockers ,comps website recomends using a dial indicator to adjust preload. after letting mine get temp i brought # 1tdc set up a dial indicator on one of rockers ( #1 in or ex) remove the distributor and install oil primer have a helper spin it with a drill , lossen rocker and rotate pushrod back and forth with finger tip tiil all lash is gone then tighten rocker til you see an aditional .02 to.04 on the dail indicator.or shim rocker till you get it that way.this is my second 505 roller and did them both that way and everything worked beutiful.
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by Cheromaniac »

basscat wrote:What is causing the bearings to "ooze" out the sides like that?
Could the bearings have been installed in the wrong order? The four bearings are different sizes and are supposed to be installed with the smallest at the rear and the largest at the front.
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SIXPAK
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by SIXPAK »

Basscat, do you have any provisions in the pan to keep oil around the pickup at during those nasty inlclines and declines?
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by basscat »

Cheromaniac - the machist that installed the cam bearings was very aware of the different sized bearing and has rebuilt many 4.0 and 4.2 motors. My bet is he did that part right since everything I checked (that he did) was to the book.

Sixpak - the existing baffling seems to do an adequate job. I do wonder if a HV oil pump could create a problem though.
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by SIXPAK »

The existing factory baffle is in the front/top of the pan well. Add one in the rear/top also for those steep inclines. Not saying this is your fix to your issue but our vehicles see some drastic inclines which may lead to the pickup becoming uncovered at times. Just a thought.
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by Emptypockets »

Do you know if the machine shop line bored the cam tunnel?

I ask because in addition to all of the other errors mine made, they didn't check the alignment and the cam went in pretty tight. I think that was the third time I dissassembled the engine and took it back.
If I had started the engine it would have certainly melted the bearings.
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by SilverXJ »

SIXPAK wrote:The existing factory baffle is in the front/top of the pan well. Add one in the rear/top also for those steep inclines. Not saying this is your fix to your issue but our vehicles see some drastic inclines which may lead to the pickup becoming uncovered at times. Just a thought.
I had one added at the rear as well. i was actually wanting to put a 1 quart kick out under the starter but my welded was concerned about the MIG welding being posour and letting the oil bleed through. My machinist just suggest running an extra quart in the pan.
Emptypockets wrote:Do you know if the machine shop line bored the cam tunnel?

I ask because in addition to all of the other errors mine made, they didn't check the alignment and the cam went in pretty tight. I think that was the third time I dissassembled the engine and took it back.
If I had started the engine it would have certainly melted the bearings.
Did he end up line boring it or did he booger one of the bearings?
Don H Jr
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Re: Cam bearing failure (pics)

Post by Don H Jr »

How about CAM BEARING Holes, did they all line up with block.

Don Jr
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