Lifter comparision?

[SilverXJ]

Anyone interested in a comparison of several lifters? Thought my various engines/rebuilds I have acquired a few sets of lifters. Off the top of my head I have a set of Comp Cams, Crower cam savers, Jeep OEM, Speed Pro, and Lunati micro-trols. Besides pictures, what measurements would be interesting?

[AGRESIVE]

Weight of each lifter in grams would actually be interesting if possible.

[SilverXJ]

I didn't think of that, but that is doable. Although they aren't anything exotic as a Schubecker lifter, so I doubt that it is going to vary that much.

[SIXPAK]

Standard Flat tappet Comp Cam lifter is 107 grams and a Schubeck is 67 grams.

[SilverXJ]

I have a Lunati Microtrol, a Comp Cam, a Crower cam saver, an OEM, an Engine Tech, and some lifter that was in a bag that Titan sent me. Externally they all look different in some way. The Lunati has a lot less travel then the rest, but it is suppose to have better oil control. I'll probably take them apart tomorrow.

[Brian E]

It would ruin them but it would be interesting to run a file over each to see how hard the materials are compared to each brand.

[SilverXJ]

Im not sure how much running a file over it would do.. I don't think it would be a very controlled test

[Alex22]

Im not sure how much running a file over it would do.. I don't think it would be a very controlled test

Does anybody you know have access to a Rockwell hardness tester?

The more critical test would be an electron microscope to view the surface of the lifter.

[Brian E]

The file would only tell you if they where really hardened or just soft crap metal. From what I have read the offshore lifters so to speak are never really treated to the full extent needed. I know my friend can test certain levels of rock well rating along with his race car engines he does a lot of toying with gun parts and hardening metals and testing for trigger work, hammers and the sear.

[SilverXJ]

Got around to processing the images. Again, we have a Lunati Microtrol, a Crower Cam Saver, a Comp Cam High Energy, an OEM, one that came with out a box (probably Engine Tech as it was from Titan, and an Engine Tech (also from Titan).

First I'll throw up a lifter diagram so we can all be familiar with the terminology.


A few side by side assembled images:
Not a lot of difference aside from the Lunati using a circlip and the Crower Camsaver's pushrod seat sits completely inside of the plunger.






Disassembled. The Crower also uses a very different oil metering plate from the rest. And the OEM one also has a slightly different pushrod seat arrangement. I don't know if I lost the metering plate for the OEM or if it never came with one. Also, the OEM gets the oil for the pushrod from the side of the plunger seat instead of the bottom of the seat like the others.


A disassembled view from above. You can see that the OEM's pushrod oil hole doesn't go through the bottom of the seat.


Close up of the plungers with the check valve assembly still attached. You can see that the OEM is shorter due to the pushrod seat sitting completely on top of the plunger.


The check valve disassembled. The Comp, Lunati, and Crower all use a disc and the OEM, Mystery and Engine Tech use a ball instead. I didn't bother photographing the Mystery one and Engine tech because the check valve was very similar to the OEM. The Lunati and Comp Cam uses a heavier disc compared to Crower's lighter and thinner disc. All have similar check valve and retainer configurations.


Underside of the pushrod seats and metering discs. You can see the hole in the side of the OEM for the oil to pass to the push rod. Also, you can see that the Crower's different disc and the lack of a lip on the seat.


A side view of how the plungers and seats would sit in the lifter body. Again, you can see the pushrod seat of the OEM sitting completely on top of the plunger. You can't see the Crower pushrod seat because it is inside of the plunger.


A better illustration of the Crower pushrod seat.


Below are two images of the flat that is cut in the Crower Cam Save lifter that makes the "Cam Saver" part. The flat spot starts from below the body oil groove and extends to the foot of the lifter.




The major differences are the OEM and OEM replacements (Engine Tech) and the performance style lifters, flat discs vs ball check valve. The Lunati Microtrol does come with a circlip which is more durable than the standard paper clip style snap ring and can be run at 0 lash or very little preload. The Lunati's plunger also compresses a lot less than the other's. They advertise better oil control, quieter operation and less chance of bleed down when sitting. What I gather is that although it is not a true anti pump up lifter (i.e. not noisy, and won't bleed down as fast) it controls pump up better than and has a less of a tendency to do so vs. a standard lifter. The Crower is also quite different. Aside from its flat for cam oiling its metering disc, check valve disc and pushrod seat are different from the others. The body oil groove is also less recessed int to the body than the others. What all those differences equate to in function I do not know. I also can't recall right now what the advantage is of running a disc type check valve over a ball type check valve.

I did take a few measurements while they were disassembled however I have misplaced the piece of paper I wrote them down on. However, I really don't think they would have been useful. I did measure the lifter diameters. The Lunati, Comp Cam, Mystery and Engine tech measure .9036" to .9038". The OEM and Crower measure .9044" to .9045". According to the FSM lifter tolerance is .9040" to.9045", lifter bore .9055" to .9065", and lifter to bore clearance at .001" to .0025". So, only the OEM and Crower have the stock diameter specs. I do not know what effect the different diameters cause to in operation. I doubt very little based on the fact that the two most commonly used replacement lifters, Engine Tech and Comp Cams, are of the smaller diameter. I have used the Crower, Comp, and Engine Tech back to back in the same block (the Titan) and noticed no difference in oil pressure or anything else other than some had a higher tendency to bleed down wen sitting.

BTW, the Comp cams and Crowers have a been used for a bit. The OEM, as evident in the pictures have been used a lot.

[Muad'Dib]

Wow fantastic information... now if we could just know what it all really means.

Just from what you have said, and the pictures .. my heart leans towards OEM lifters, or Lunati's. I have a feeling though that the OEM's are going to cost an arm and a leg.

Look at the oem pushrod seat hole for oil. Its huge compared to the rest.

[SilverXJ]

I wouldn't go with OEMs as they have the ball type check valve. I did some research and the disc is a better design and will allow higher RPMS. If you are after the larger lifter I believe that Crower sells their lifters without the Cam Saver flat spot as well. I don't think the size of the oil hole in the pushrod seat matters much as it is still going into the same push rod hole.

[Flash]

WOW GRATE JOB!!!!
I can't add any insight, but you have open the door, so some one can.

Grate job, you get the A++++++++

[SilverXJ]

Slight update... very slight. I just received a set of Johnson-Hylift lifters from Top Line. No pictures because these are the same lifters Crower uses in the cam savers lifter minus the bleed line. It uses the same 4 hole metering plate (which I only found on the Crowers and Johnsons) and the light weight/thin disc check valve. The only difference was the flat cut in the side of the Crower lifters. The machining is quite nice as is with the Crower. The oil recesses in the body have a nice finished look. I liked the Crower lifter without the flat, so I think I have found what I am looking for. The also measure the same as the Crower lifters, .9041"-.9044"

In my research for a "Johnson lifter"(reputed to be the best lifter years ago) I found two companies selling a Johnson lifter. One was Top Line (toplineauto.com, 800-441-1400, $56 per set) and the other was Johnson lifters, which is related to Scorpion Racing Products, makers of the Scorpion roller rockers(SRP, 954-779-3600). I don't know the facts but some how the Scorpion company was involved in the buy out of the original Johnson lifters. According to Hylift it was a dishonest part, but that is just hearsay. Anyhow. I got in touch with Topline/Hylift and I was immediately offered to purchase a set of lifters and they answered any questions I had. However, The SRP/Johnson company sent me on about 4 phone calls before I could actually purchase a set.. and at a nice price too... of $230.00 for a set. The only thing I got out of them for the $230 was that their lifters were machined to extreme tolerances. Ok.. but.. its just a Jeep that won't spin above 6k. For that price I could buy 4 sets of standard lifters. I'm not trying to insult their product.. for all I know their lifters will last longer than the engine block, but I am not spending that king of money on flat tappet lifters.

[IH 392]

When I was in the engine assembly area we used "SealedPower" and "Clevite" lifters and they were IDENTICAL (then) and both had "Johnson" printed on the side in ink, we never had ANY! issues with them and I still hear good things about them and wouldn't hesitate to use them.