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Performance or lack of Performance

Performance mods and Advanced Stroker discussion.
SatiricalHen
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by SatiricalHen » April 10th, 2020, 8:40 am

I pulled the plugs today and nothing looked out of the ordinary really, and put new plugs in because I had them. Still doesn't sound right. Pulled the valve cover off after this 30 second run and all of the bolts that hold the rockers in were tight. Tried giving them all a wiggle and the front one (not sure if that is intake or exhaust off the top of my head) on cylinder 3 wiggled pretty freely. I am definitely not an expert so I came here to see if that is normal or something bad. My thinking is that it has misfired a couple times on start up and the lifter was not pumped up, but then it would pump up and run fine, but now it is misfiring the whole time it is completely failed. Does that make sense or am I completely misunderstanding how lifters work? Also, with the retarded timing statement, do you think I could be a whole tooth off on the distributor or what? If I am remembering correctly the reader showed that it was adding more timing than I am used to seeing on my Comanche. Could it be trying to make up for how far off the timing might be? Sorry for all the dumb questions, just trying to figure this stuff out. Thanks for all the replies so far!!

Tolemar
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by Tolemar » April 10th, 2020, 4:07 pm

Sounds like you might have a bad lifter or flat cam lobe. Did you break it in properly with break in oil and using motor oil with higher level of zinc In it? Ive seen cams go flat in smal block chevys with Mobil 1 synthetic oil.

Tolemar
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by Tolemar » April 10th, 2020, 4:35 pm

Let me be clear on that even if your lifter is on the base circle of the cam you should still have that preload that’s recommended. If in fact it is loose and has slack there is a problem. Maybe have somebody crank it over with ignition disconnected and you watch the corresponding rocker arm and make sure they all move about the same. But really if it’s that loose that might be the problem.

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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by Cheromaniac » April 11th, 2020, 5:04 am

You could either have a bent pushrod or a collapsed lifter. Remove the corresponding rocker and check. If the pushrod is straight, then the lifter is collapsed and the head will have to come off. You may also find that the corresponding cam lobe is flattened, and the rough running is due to the valve not being opened.

SatiricalHen
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by SatiricalHen » April 12th, 2020, 9:42 am

Broke it in for 30 minutes 2000-2500 rpm with the break in additive they sent me and I’ve been running rotella t4 10w-30. It’s supposed to storm bad today so I’ll see if I can get someone to help me mess with it tomorrow.

lazyxj
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by lazyxj » April 16th, 2020, 1:17 pm

In your third posting in this thread, you wrote "There are no cats on the jeep."
How is the ECM dealing with the missing information that is normally provided by the two O2 sensors, if they were even installed?
It should have a constant CEL indicating either a bad catalytic converter or a misfunctioning O2 sensor.
This may have something to do with the lack of expected performance.

SatiricalHen
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Vehicle Model: Cherokee

Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by SatiricalHen » April 20th, 2020, 3:43 pm

lazyxj wrote:
April 16th, 2020, 1:17 pm
In your third posting in this thread, you wrote "There are no cats on the jeep."
How is the ECM dealing with the missing information that is normally provided by the two O2 sensors, if they were even installed?
It should have a constant CEL indicating either a bad catalytic converter or a misfunctioning O2 sensor.
This may have something to do with the lack of expected performance.
There is still an upstream and downstream O2 sensor on the Jeep. The upstream seems to be the one that does most of the actual fuel trim stuff with the downstream one mostly telling you if the cat is working or not from what I have read. The downstream one is installed in a taller bung spacing it out of direct flow which prevents the CEL. The guy who does my exhaust work has been doing it longer than I've been alive and he said he's always had good luck with it all working properly so I trust him.

blay127
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by blay127 » May 13th, 2020, 6:50 am

any updates on this issue?

SatiricalHen
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by SatiricalHen » May 18th, 2020, 5:02 pm

blay127 wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 6:50 am
any updates on this issue?
Mostly lost all motivation to work on it. I did a compression test on it and the results weren't good and I've been busy, it's been raining, or I've just not wanted to even look at it.
Cylinder 1 170 psi
Cylinder 2 140 psi
Cylinder 3 120 psi
Cylinder 4 170 psi
Cylinder 5 170 psi
Cylinder 6 145 psi

I'm leaning towards another head gasket or at least the head having to come off with those numbers. This still doesn't explain the sound unless maybe the leak is making the sound I'm hearing. I honestly don't know much in the way of diagnosing engine issues and I don't know anyone local that can help me without me spending a fortune that I don't have so I guess it will continue to sit for a while. This is the third summer in a row it has been dead and I'm getting very tired of having to mess with it. 3 head gaskets in 3 summers with never getting the temperature in the red, following torque sequence, new head bolts and name brand gaskets just doesn't make sense to me. Both the block and the head were machined, this is the second head in that time frame as well since the first one had valve sealing issues the machine shop said they couldn't fix. If anyone is local and wants to help I would greatly appreciate it. It is hard to diagnose over the internet.

Tolemar
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by Tolemar » May 18th, 2020, 9:16 pm

Did you build the engine? Whats your preload on your lifters? 1st rocker in cylinder 3 was loose. Lifter should always have about .030 preload on base circle and never really be sloppy loose. I think you have a bad cam lobed considering the low compression in the#3 cylinders. bad lobes can cause those results. Does it have bad lifter tick by any chance?As far as your break in with the additive I personally wouldn't of done it that way. I would of used break in oil and changed it right after break in with a good high zinc oil like valvaline vr1 or other high zinc oils on the market. what oil did you use after the break in?

SatiricalHen
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by SatiricalHen » May 21st, 2020, 2:32 pm

Tolemar wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 9:16 pm
Did you build the engine? Whats your preload on your lifters? 1st rocker in cylinder 3 was loose. Lifter should always have about .030 preload on base circle and never really be sloppy loose. I think you have a bad cam lobed considering the low compression in the#3 cylinders. bad lobes can cause those results. Does it have bad lifter tick by any chance?As far as your break in with the additive I personally wouldn't of done it that way. I would of used break in oil and changed it right after break in with a good high zinc oil like valvaline vr1 or other high zinc oils on the market. what oil did you use after the break in?
I did “build” the engine. I used the “” because I have no clue what I’m doing and did this watching YouTube videos and googling/asking questions. I do not know the preload on the lifter. I don’t really know how you would check that. Runs super quiet no ticks or clicks at all until a sudden new sound. I broke it in based off of what I had been told and how I had done my Comanche which somehow still runs. I used the additive provided by the manufacturer for break in, and I’ve been using rotella t4 10w-30 for the rest of the 1500 or so miles it has on it. The main reason I lean towards headgasket is the previous failures and the fact that it has randomly lost coolant without a trace of a leak. But there’s no indication on the plugs, in the exhaust or on the dipstick that’s the coolant is going anywhere. It has truly baffled me. One theory presented to me by someone who has built a few 4.0s (but lives way too far away to in person diagnose) is that the lifter bled down more quickly than others and that is where the slop came from.

Tolemar
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by Tolemar » May 22nd, 2020, 7:04 am

If your loosing coolant then that is a problem and your possible issue. Not sure what the zinc content is in that rotella but id say you need atleast 1200ppm even after you break the engine in. There is a spring inside the lifter that keeps the preload on the rockers. They shouldn't bleed off to the point of ecessive slop unless you are compressing the spring in the lifter. You threw up a red flag when you said this and can be another issue. Even with it loosing water it shouldn't run badly unless its big leak and losing it fast. I drove a chevy with a blown head gasket and other than getting hot it ran perfectly fine.

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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by jsawduste » May 22nd, 2020, 5:35 pm

Did you use a sealant on #11 head bolt ?

That is a "wet" bolt and requires a glob of goop to avoid coolant loss.

SatiricalHen
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by SatiricalHen » Yesterday, 11:22 am

Tolemar wrote:
May 22nd, 2020, 7:04 am
If your loosing coolant then that is a problem and your possible issue. Not sure what the zinc content is in that rotella but id say you need atleast 1200ppm even after you break the engine in. There is a spring inside the lifter that keeps the preload on the rockers. They shouldn't bleed off to the point of ecessive slop unless you are compressing the spring in the lifter. You threw up a red flag when you said this and can be another issue. Even with it loosing water it shouldn't run badly unless its big leak and losing it fast. I drove a chevy with a blown head gasket and other than getting hot it ran perfectly fine.
It has ran fine the past two blown headgaskets and lost coolant for months before there was a trace of white smoke from the exhaust. I believe the headgasket may be an issue, but not the noise issue. There is a local guy that said he could come by and help me when he has some free time. hopefully he can help see and pinpoint the issues.

SatiricalHen
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Re: Performance or lack of Performance

Post by SatiricalHen » Yesterday, 11:22 am

jsawduste wrote:
May 22nd, 2020, 5:35 pm
Did you use a sealant on #11 head bolt ?

That is a "wet" bolt and requires a glob of goop to avoid coolant loss.
Yes I used sealant on that bolt and the 10 pounds less torque

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