Cam Lobes (pic)

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Reelm n Rubi
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Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by Reelm n Rubi »

Check out the width differance between a Competition Cams factory grind, and a Jeep shaft. The Jeep 4.0 factory shaft has way wider lobes than the aftermarket shaft.
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John
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by John »

The lobes have been narrower on every after.market camshaft I have seen for the 4.0.
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by dwg86 »

From what I understand the aftermarket cams are amc 258 cams. An American camshaft company is working on Jeep 4.0 cams(wider lobes). I don't know when they will be available. I will try to find out some info this week.
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by Wrambler »

So judging by this pic when building a stroker we may be better off getting a factory cam reground then buying aftermarket.
Would also explain why factory cams live longer then the aftermarket cams do.
Mark
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2004 WJ 4.7L,V8, Airraid Jr, Dynomax ultraflo, addco rear sway.
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Flash
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by Flash »

Yeah the cam being made off of the 258 makes senses, 258 did have cam failures..............I can't recall hearing of any stock 4.0L cam failure.............Maybe a gear failure here and there..............................................................

If the wider lobes do get released, that would be a better bet for High Performance, high spring pressure cams.
I thing a factory cam regrind would be the best bet......................Or a after market with the "cam saver" lifters.

Flash
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"I've also never completed a motor, yet. My mouth (fingers) is also writing checks my ass can't cash."
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by dwg86 »

I've been trying to get info on when the new wide lobe cams are to be finished and released. The gentalman that worked for the company that is going to make them, called them 1996 and later camshafts. He hasn't returned my phone calls. As soon as I get some info I will post.
I hav 2 new mopar performance 30AB cams that I am concidering having reground to different specs. I need to take them to Reed Cams to have them profiled. I have no ideal what the duation @ .050 is or valve timing specs. The advertised duration is 256 with 450 valve lift.
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by Flash »

Hmmm thats interesting, because the newer cam(and block) have a "cam plate" instead of a bolt, spring, and pin. To this date, all after market cams are of the early design.

This would be good and bad as you can change the chain and sprocket, and add the pin bolt, to us the older cam in a newer design. You can't install a newer cam in an older block..................... I thought that the change happen in 99.....?


Flash
89 XJ with 300,000 on the original eng

"I've also never completed a motor, yet. My mouth (fingers) is also writing checks my ass can't cash."
eliv1
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by eliv1 »

I keep reading about people saying that the 258 cam design was with the narrower lobes, but I have to jump in.

EVERY 258 cam I have seen here (in israel) is a wide-lobe design, I even have 2 of them laying around.

maybe all these people refer to the 232 cam's, which maybe was narrow lobe design (havn't seen them so I dont know).

Indeed my comp's-cam 68-231-4 has narrow lobes (lasting about 10K miles so far) and my old 258 cam had much wider lobes.


what's the source of that rumor? (258 = narrow)
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by Flash »

I don't think any one has seen a 258 with a narrow lobe, It was just a assumption, that made sence,...... Until now! :doh: :mrgreen:

What year was your 258 with the stock cam and wide lobes

Flash
89 XJ with 300,000 on the original eng

"I've also never completed a motor, yet. My mouth (fingers) is also writing checks my ass can't cash."
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by John »

I have a 1976 stock 258 cam on my bench now, wide lobe. all I have seen are the wide lobe like in the 4.0.
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by Wrambler »

So, if it's not a cam based on the 4.2 lobes then the aftermarket is just trying to save a buck or two at our expense!
Just what we need on top of poor oil for flat tappet cams.
Mark
1969 AMC Rambler, 4.0L,H.O efi, T5
1997 XJ Sport, 4.0L, AX15
2004 WJ 4.7L,V8, Airraid Jr, Dynomax ultraflo, addco rear sway.
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by eliv1 »

My 258's are all "new model" design, 80's and later, and all the one's i've seen.

but Jhon here supports my word, probably all 258's had wide-lobe cam's.

I honestly can't understand why the cam company's would go with narrow lobes, the cost they save is neglible in my opinion.
88 CJ8, 4.5L Stroker ,P&P Head ,Compcam 68-231-4 cam , 4.0L Junkyard MPI , 99 Intake, Borla Header,2.5" Flowmaster + piping,Electric Fans;SUA 4" lift on 33" tires ;4.11's Dana 44 F&R LockRight , High Steer with CTM's ;OBA;Full Cage.
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by John »

The narrow lobes have been with us for years, long before cam/lifter failure was a issue for proper assembled and broke in set ups. Parasitic drag was reduced without problems until the lubrication and sometimes lifter quality came into the equation. The narrow lobe in itself is not the problem, Unfortunately we are only seeing the cam mfg's say it isn't my fault instead of doing what they can to build equipment for the conditions of today.
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by Wrambler »

They probably had some one in engineering study the loads and had the shaft cast to the minimum specs that would hold for X amount of hours.
Now we've got less in the standard oil packs and are paying the price. Did someone not say that one of the companies has been approached about the narrow lobes and is working to have wide lobe blanks cast?
I know for my needs I could have a shaft reground. Since most stroker builds that do quench and have the block decked need custom pushrods, that is what I would do if a non stock cam is wanted.
Be nice if we could get the roller cam off the ground, but if enough orders for the prototypes can not be found, we'll never get anyone to step up to the plate to keep them on the shelves.

So, going by that I circle back and go to a regrind, save those stock cams!!!
Mark
1969 AMC Rambler, 4.0L,H.O efi, T5
1997 XJ Sport, 4.0L, AX15
2004 WJ 4.7L,V8, Airraid Jr, Dynomax ultraflo, addco rear sway.
1965 Ambassador Convertible, rustbucket, Resident Evil, can't get it done, can't kill it...
dwg86
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Re: Cam Lobes (pic)

Post by dwg86 »

CWC camshaft is the company I talked to about a month ago. I sent them a link with pictures of the narrow cam lobes and wide cam lobes. They said that they made the cams for the 4.0 and don't remember making narrow lobe camshafts, and that narrow lobe cams probably came from the earlier 258 engine that the aftermarket companies were using for the 4.0. No aftermarket wide cam lobes have been made for the 4.0. They were going to cast the wider lobe cams and have them available for the aftermaket companies first and then made available for the performance companies. I haven't been able to get anyone to call me back about the progress of the cams. On their wbsite they also talk about making a grey ductile iron roller cams(not for the jeep, just general information). So maybe if there is enough interest in the roller cam, we can see how much the R&D and cam cores will cost.
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